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Re:Courier Prime: It’s Courier, Just Better by mcv on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @04:36AM (#18805133)
I don't see the relationship between text length and actual play time. Plays and movies aren't just people spewing lines non-stop. Text/playtime varies a lot between a Tarantino movie and something like Mad Max: Fury Road. It seems like a pointless metric.

And while I like courier in general, I thought typography experts disliked it because it's not as readable as proportional fonts. I'd expect readability to be important for screenplays too.

Besides, stuff like word count is easy to automate.

So to me it seems that if the industry indeed insists on everything being in courier, that's more likely to be a traditionalist remnant from the typewriter era rather than a rational decision. But I admit I don't know this industry at all.

Re:Courier Prime: It’s Courier, Just Better by WorldMaker on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @11:55AM (#18807601)
In addition to using a very standard font, screenplays have a lot of other very strict formatting guidelines involving use of things like particular whitespace rhythms.

It's the combination of the whole, including and especially the whitespace rhythms (which are still connected to font metrics, of course), that lead to the 1 page is approximately 1 minute guideline metric, because scene descriptions and actions have different whitespace from dialog.

Interestingly, compared to your expectation that a Tarantino screenplay would be more dense than the Fury Road screenplay, it is actually dialog that has a lot more whitespace overall in the screenplay format (they are subject to smaller inner columns) than scene descriptions/action descriptions (which use the full width of the page). Word count wise, action involves a lot more prose than dialog and many of the best action screenplays have more overall word count than a more dialog-heavy screenplay. (What I've seen of the Fury Road screenplay read like a novel, though as is pointed out elsewhere it is fascinating because it was written storyboard first, which is the exception rather than the rule.)

The screenplay format really is a fascinating thing to study. There are some great books out there on the screenplay format and how it came to be what it is today.

Re:Courier Prime: It’s Courier, Just Better by bjcy on Friday January 04, 2019 @10:23AM (#18824591)
Any top recommendations for those books? Super intrigued to read more.
Re:Courier Prime: It’s Courier, Just Better by WorldMaker on Friday January 04, 2019 @12:13PM (#18825670)
The big one that left a lasting impression for me at an early age was Lew Hunter's Screenwriting 434. It does a very good job illustrating a lot of the technical mechanics of the format and the Hollywood guidelines and expectations that have built up around it (including the page per minute expectation, and even the expectations on page per act, which is another formula that Hollywood has), and some of why, using an example screenplay throughout.

(Just be forewarned it is not a great example screenplay in the usual fashion of such teaching examples because it is designed more towards the lesson plan than coherency/quality as a story of its own; and also arguably another example of that old weird maxim "those who can't, teach" given Lew Hunter's mostly TV Movie writer IMDB credits.)

Re:Courier Prime: It’s Courier, Just Better by Joeboy on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @09:00AM (#18806171)
> Besides, stuff like word count is easy to automate.

Supposing I hand you a 90 page book and ask you roughly how many words are in it. How are you going to answer that? People hand round paper screenplays, or bits of screenplays, all the time, especially on set. It's much more practical for lots of purposes. Abandoning the minute-per-page rule of thumb (or equally importantly pages-per-shooting-day targets) would create way more problems than it solves.

However, it's also true that if you receive a screenplay that's not in standard screenplay format, it's a very reliable indication that the writer doesn't know what they're doing. Not a perfect heuristic, but there are maybe hundreds of thousands of spec scripts in circulation of which a few dozen a year get picked up by studios. So they can afford to be picky.

Bonus trivia: As it happens Fury Road is a very rare case of a movie that was originally developed as a storyboard, and converted to screenplay format for production purposes. Apparently you can do that if you're George Miller.

Re:Courier Prime: It’s Courier, Just Better by mcv on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @08:04PM (#18811941)
> Supposing I hand you a 90 page book and ask you roughly how many words are in it. How are you going to answer that?

Get the digital version. We're talking about a computer font here, so the script exists in digital form.

> As it happens Fury Road is a very rare case of a movie that was originally developed as a storyboard, > and converted to screenplay format for production purposes. Apparently you can do that if you're > George Miller.

And it worked very well. It makes a lot of sense for a very visual movie.

Re:Courier Prime: It’s Courier, Just Better by jforberg on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @05:34AM (#18805349)
> Plays and movies aren't just people spewing lines non-stop.

Screenplays contain more than just lines.

Re:Courier Prime: It’s Courier, Just Better by mcv on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @06:47AM (#18805605)
Even so, using the number of words to describe events to estimate the time those events will take to play out, seems like asking for trouble.
Re:Courier Prime: It’s Courier, Just Better by scott_s on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @10:06AM (#18806583)
And yet. It's a rough heuristic, good enough for its purpose.
Re:Courier Prime: It’s Courier, Just Better by chasingthewind on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @11:20AM (#18807242)
>I don't see the relationship between text length and actual play time.

Agreed. Here's a fun counterexample:

2001: A Space Oddyssey

Screenplay length: 65 pages

Run length: 161 minutes

:)

Re:Courier Prime: It’s Courier, Just Better by da_chicken on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:02PM (#18809604)
A movie famous (infamous, even) for it's significant non-verbal presentation? That sounds like an exception proving the rule.