https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Polley_mine_disaster

Not permanent. They can be reclaimed, but that usually doesn't happen for many years until after the end of life for the mine.

The tar sands come to mind. The entire forest above the sands is literally scraped off the face of the earth, the sands removed, the oil removed from the sands, and then everything aside from the oil is left behind in huge swaths of desolate waste.

Lee Foote, a University of Alberta wetlands ecologist who has worked with the tar sands industry and advised the Alberta government on wetland reclamation policies, agrees that reclamation has so far been done more for public show than to create viable ecosystems.

“The mindset is to throw big dollars at engineering designer wetlands that are green but not nearly as functional as what was there in the past,” says Foote. “The main aim is to get the social license that is needed for these companies to continue operating.”

-- https://e360.yale.edu/features/on_ravaged_tar_sands_lands_bi...

One county in my state even bothers with monitoring, enforcement. Not a single issued citation (fine) was ever collected (during the study period).

Maddening.

Now back to your statement. Do you retract your claim of desolation? Or can you provide any evidence to support your position. Please do not reference palm oil in relation to the tar sands. No palm trees grow in Fort Mac.

Second, HN guidelines say that one should not accuse someone else of trolling. It almost never leads to a decent discussion.

I think mining is a necessity to exploit all natural resource opportunities, very similar to how I would view solar and wind installations being built in "nice" areas like off the coast of Massachusetts.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-30/germany-c...

I'm not looking for an answer to this question, as I don't own any coal mines or coal power plants. Just expressing general dissatisfaction with humanity's destructive-but-convenient habits.

Yes, but not for electricity. There isn't a way to make steel at any scale without using coking coal in the furnaces.

Here's a 2013 article about making steel without coal: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cleaner-cheaper-w...

And something from 2018: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611961/this-mit-spinout-c...

Not proven at scale yet, but it appears to be more promising than many other unsolved climate problems.

Also, natural gas is already being used at scale to make steel, not a complete replacement of coal, but a big reduction.

At least for Germany (as mentioned by GP), that business will not be around for much longer. Steel from China and India simply is too cheap compared with domestic production. Probably once these two countries get too expensive production will shift over to Africa...

I've never understood the argument that since [bad thing] happens, [more bad things] are justified. But judge, since nature kills humans all the time you can't possibly charge me with murder...

Aren’t humans a part of that nature? Isn’t that what makes us destructive?

Maybe my point is not clear. I’m trying to say that even if we have a choice (or an illusion of it), our nature (and nature itself) has and will drive us to do destructive things.

I’m not suggesting we give up all hope, but it is important to recognize that the beauty of an everlasting mountain is definitely a concept invented by man.

Also, I'm sure you can make find some negatives in the lithium / PV / wind industries which are so vehemently pushed forward around here.

Changing the argument to the damage caused by lithium mines is just a distraction. My argument isn't against coal, it's against unnecessary evils. It would take a mighty strong mind to honestly argue that solar and wind power is more evil than coal.

I'm going to bow out of this argument now as I'm not actually looking to have my opinion changed to a more pro-coal stance in 2018.