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Re:“Modern” C++ Lamentations by pjmlp on Friday December 28, 2018 @04:22PM (#18779521)
Even though I do like C++, I kind of agree.

As Wirth languages fanboy, I belive that if Java 1.0 had AOT compilation from day one, instead of leaving it to commercial third parties, and proper value types, the amount of C and C++'s adoption would have looked much different.

Re:“Modern” C++ Lamentations by Koshkin on Friday December 28, 2018 @05:13PM (#18779885)
I wonder what Wirth would have to say about Java...
Re:“Modern” C++ Lamentations by pjmlp on Friday December 28, 2018 @05:22PM (#18779954)
As you might imagine, not kind words.

"Modern languages like Java and C# may well be superior to old ones like Fortran, PL/I, and C, but they are far from perfect, and they could be much better. Their manuals of several hundred pages are an unmistakable symptom of their inadequacy. Engineers in industry, however, are rarely free from constraints. They supposedly they must be compatible with the rest of the world, and to deviate from established standards might be fatal."

https://www.inf.ethz.ch/personal/wirth/Miscellaneous/IEEE-An...

"In 1995 Sun Microsystems presented its language Java , fully 6 years after Oberon. It incorporated much of the "philosophy" of Oberon, but, alas, chose the style and syntax of C. Around 2000 Microsoft released its language C# as a strong competitor of Java, and Google followed in 2007 with its language Go, even more strongly following (the 18 years old) Oberon. The crux with these languages, which all became wide-spread due to strong industrial support, is their size and complexity. The ambition to provide everything to everybody prevailed and let them grow into complex bodies difficult to master."

https://www.inf.ethz.ch/personal/wirth/Miscellaneous/Compute...

Re:“Modern” C++ Lamentations by makapuf on Saturday December 29, 2018 @01:33AM (#18782283)
Using complexity as an argument against Go is not really accurate in my point of view.
Re:“Modern” C++ Lamentations by pjmlp on Saturday December 29, 2018 @03:06AM (#18782580)
It is, because after Modula-2, Wirth's goals have been to produce the minimalist, type safe, systems programming language.

Oberon-2, Concurrent Pascal, Active Oberon and Zonnon variants were designed by students or together with ETHZ fellow researchers.

Oberon is smaller than Modula-2, and Oberon-07 lost features on each language revision.

So from our point of view Go isn't complex.

From my point of view Go still lacks several features, which Go 2.0 will kind of address.

However, from Wirth's point of view, which after being retired was still trying to design such minimal language, Go is indeed complex.

You can see this by reading the language reports.

https://www.inf.ethz.ch/personal/wirth/Oberon/index.html