Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

Re:Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Re... by ubernostrum on Thursday December 27, 2018 @12:11AM (#18767494)

Let me be clear: I do not see it as an inherently bad thing if Nazis have to put in more effort than other people to find or build a platform on which they can spew their thoughts. I do not see it as the first step on a slippery slope to a "sanitized, P.C.-friendly" world. I do not accept the dilemma you pose, in which either we must allow Nazis to run around threatening mass murder or else nobody can say anything.

I think a world without Nazis in it would be a better world than the one we have, and I think the fact that several countries already have laws in place to restrict the speech of Nazis, and they haven't led to your dystopian outcome, is a strong empirical counterargument to what you suggest.

A simpler way to put this is just "anyone who does not agree with me should go to a reeducation camp, or to jail, or maybe die."

You accidentally mixed up your scripts -- you're in favor of the people who argue for rounding up their enemies into death camps, remember? You think those people are great, and need special support and protection. So if I were to argue for rounding you up and throwing you in a death camp, you would suddenly be on my side and offering every resource you have to help me further my glorious cause. Right?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Re... by dang on Thursday December 27, 2018 @03:35AM (#18768306)

Posting like this is unacceptable on HN. Nazi evil doesn't entitle you to pour acid all over the container here. Regardless of how right you are, venting bile and taunting others helps nothing and is destructive of everything we're trying to achieve here, such as hopefully have a place for discussion that isn't flaming shit. We need experienced users like you to help build that, instead of breaking the site guidelines blatantly. This whole subthread has been hellish, and it's extremely disappointing.

Please review the site guidelines and post civilly and substantively, or not at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Re... by ubernostrum on Thursday December 27, 2018 @04:16AM (#18768452)

Your key flaw, and HN's key flaw -- and to be fair, one shared by a lot of other people! -- is the pursuit of civility as an end in itself. Horrendously evil people can accomplish their goals while publicly conducting themselves with perfect civility, as history has taught us again and again. And HN's stance is that that's OK, because all that really matters is they're civil about it.

This isn't the first time you've been told this. It's not going to be the last time you'll be told this. And I know telling you this isn't going to change anything, but I have to try anyway. We know now beyond any doubt (and a legion of Cassandras were telling us long ago) just how easily social-media sites (and yes, HN is one) can turn into instruments and enablers of radicalization despite openly enforcing "civility".

You know what the solution is. You know, on some level, that civility isn't an end in itself; you know that the actual ends to which people use civility as a means matter. You know some of those ends are very, very bad. And you know how to recognize the people doing it. You also hold in your hand the power to do something about it.

Abandon the civility-at-any-cost policy. Stop being an enabler for the stuff I've been responding to in this thread. Take it from an "experienced user" who's had to learn this the hard way when moderating elsewhere. Or, in keeping with the season, treat this as a visitation by a spirit who warns you of the chain you're winding about yourself, link by link, and change it while you still can.

[ Parent | on HN ]