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A comment on SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission. Parent comment

Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by Phlarp on Monday December 24, 2018 @04:00PM (#18754246)
GPS is lofted and maintained by the DoD. It's primary purpose is military. It would not exist as a free service without DoD's investment. Other satellite constellations with far fewer sats cost considerable amounts of money to use, and few of our modern applications for GPS would be very appealing at $xxx a month. Civillian GPS is a generous charity from US taxpayers to the rest of the world
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Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by sneak on Monday December 24, 2018 @04:06PM (#18754269)
No, its primary purpose is civilian. Its original and occasional purpose is military, sure, but as I mentioned, it is used far more widely now, by several orders of magnitude. Its military applications are so eclipsed now by non-war-related uses that the military origins are practically irrelevant.
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Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by Phlarp on Monday December 24, 2018 @05:04PM (#18754524)
Civilian use is wide yes, but this is only because it is provided for free by DoD. None of those uses would be economically viable if they had to bear the costs of developing, launching and maintaining the system.

Keeping track of the boats and missiles pays the bills. Everything else is just a happy accident of zero marginal use cost.

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Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by extrapickles on Monday December 24, 2018 @09:56PM (#18755582)
It still economically viable for large governments to make their own for just civilian use, under the same logic that has government funding roads, parks and other public goods.

The GPS system cost ~$12 billion to make, and needs ~$750 million a year in maintenance (mainly launching new stats as they have a service life of 15 years). This means it costs each US taxpayer $5/year to run. Quite a few road/subway projects cost more than the GPS system.

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Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by xvilka on Monday December 24, 2018 @07:26PM (#18755073)
Galileo GNSS proves you wrong, since initially was designed primarily for civilian use.
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Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by meepmorp on Monday December 24, 2018 @08:10PM (#18755239)
Galileo’s being primarily civilian in focus has no bearing on GPS’ main purpose. GPS is a US system, funded and directed by the military.
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Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by xvilka on Monday December 24, 2018 @08:17PM (#18755267)
You are right, but it proves that GNSS system can be civilian primarily and would be still feasible.
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Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by enraged_camel on Monday December 24, 2018 @08:48PM (#18755372)
Nice goal post moving.
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Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by burfog on Monday December 24, 2018 @09:34PM (#18755516)
Galileo GNSS is publicly justified as being primarily for civilian use.

Navstar-GPS works fine though, so there must be some other reason.

Possibilities: military use, jobs program, pride, etc.

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Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by sneak on Monday December 24, 2018 @05:08PM (#18754543)
It’s not provided for free by DoD. We pay for it with taxes. Civilians do indeed bear the cost in full. I am not sure I understand where you are going with this.

Doing war stuff with GPS does not generate any revenue. It costs American citizens the same amount of dollars regardless of whether it is used for war or not.

It’s not national, and it’s not security.

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Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by Phlarp on Monday December 24, 2018 @05:37PM (#18754662)
Most of the world does not pay US taxes, it's completely free to them.

At this point I just assume you are trolling.

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Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by ricw on Monday December 24, 2018 @08:06PM (#18755229)
Every GPS device pays a couple of cents to use the system, regardless of country. Whilst this initially may have been peanuts, I’d be pretty sure that this is a self-paying system by now.
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Re:SpaceX launches first U.S. national security space mission by Phlarp on Tuesday December 25, 2018 @10:36PM (#18760323)
Sure there is a royalty on some of the key parts of receiver hardware and software, but if you think that even comes close to the cost of the whole system you are in for a rude awakening. Those royalties won't have even paid for the original GPS sats, let alone the newer stuff going up in modern times.

The cheapest Iridium phone service plan is $50/month for just 10 minutes of talk time. Would you pay $50/month for 10 minutes of GPS navigation a month?

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