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Re:Huawei Could Divide the World by seanmcdirmid on Friday December 21, 2018 @12:40PM (#18734919)
It was “different” back then. CNN was blocked in 2002 but New York Times wasn’t. One of the reasons I started reading the New York Times actually.

The internet was much more open in 2008 than 2002 (neither nytimes or cnn or anything else major was blocked), but after the olympics China reversed course. Most major news sites are now blocked, but unlike 2002, CNN isn’t. Go figure.

I think the high point of Chinese liberalization in recent history must have been the late 80s, but that is pre-internet.

Re:Huawei Could Divide the World by hangonhn on Friday December 21, 2018 @01:33PM (#18735387)
Wait, 1989 was not a good year for Chinese liberalization...

I think the high point was really under Hu Jintao. The transition from Hu to Xi was a very tumultuous period. Xi, unlike his predecessors, had a very contentious transition and had to fend off numerous fractions inside the CCCP. After surviving that, based partly on the backing of the PLA (his father was a PLA general), he really, really consolidated power. He now has a path forward to be president for life. His ideas are now literally part of the Chinese constitution, elevating him to the same level as Mao. Liberalization is, in some ways, the opposite of centralization. Therefore, liberalization must be stemmed.

Hu Jintao, on the other hand, didn't really have that much power. There was always Jiang and his fraction. When power is divested, liberalization is more likely.

Re:Huawei Could Divide the World by ssnistfajen on Friday December 21, 2018 @01:47PM (#18735519)
Agreed that 2008-2012 was relatively much more liberal. Hosting the Olympics boosted China's confidence as a prosperous and prominent nation on the world stage. There were growing grass root movements against corruption and restrictive cultural policies. Technology tools available around that time were not sophisticated enough to effectively carry out censorship. Google had quit the Mainland Chinese market but most of their services were still accessible without VPNs (which were easily obtainable and almost always worked with minimal tweaks) via google.com.hk. Weibo was filled with great social commentary and critique. It got optimistic enough that some individuals hoped that Xi Jinping as the incoming president will actually carry out political liberalization. Obviously it did not take long for him to show his true colours.
Re:Huawei Could Divide the World by seanmcdirmid on Friday December 21, 2018 @04:55PM (#18737031)
You have to understand the liberalization that led up to June 4th 1989 was pretty unprecedented. That it resulted in a horrible knee jerk is really sad.

China was liberalizing at an unprecedented rate in the 80s, to the point that the government didn't immediately react when a bunch of students gathered in Tiananmen square to protest. That could not have happened in 2008 and definitely not 2012.

Hu Jintao was not a reformer, not even close. Power was divested for sure, but the general direction of his reign was a show of opening before the olympics and then quick repression. Xi consolidated power, but did not "reverse course" on liberalization, it was already going in that direction.

Re:Huawei Could Divide the World by DenisM on Friday December 21, 2018 @01:35PM (#18735409)
>but after the olympics China reversed course

This also happened in Russia 4 years and in Germany in 1936. It seems like the prestige of the upcoming games is holding the tide of authoritarian rule, which then surges unrestrained.

Re:Huawei Could Divide the World by lostlogin on Friday December 21, 2018 @02:08PM (#18735676)
“Holding the games in China magnifies everything that is wrong with Olympic sports: the triumph of money, power and nationalism over amateurism, sportsmanship and international understanding.”

I don’t think this quote relates to China alone. And more recently, Brazil seems to be taking some dangerous turns.

https://isthmus.com/opinion/opinion/the-totalitarian-olympic...