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Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by therealmarv on Saturday December 15, 2018 @12:56PM (#18689460)
What are the best alternatives? I've read about some open source router alternatives (both hardware and software) in the past but forget the names. Also a very good HW with hardened open software could be great. Any information?
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by floil on Saturday December 15, 2018 @01:10PM (#18689538)
For myself, I switched everything over to Google WiFi's, precisely because they auto-update, and having worked previously on a security-focused team at Google, I trust them to have a competent security team and actually stay on top of the patches. I don't miss fussing with manually updating router firmware. Life is too short.

On the other hand, my Nest thermostats were bricked after a software update this week, so maybe today I'm starting to see a crack in my "auto update is best" dogma...

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by TeMPOraL on Saturday December 15, 2018 @01:53PM (#18689735)
> On the other hand, my Nest thermostats were bricked after a software update this week, so maybe today I'm starting to see a crack in my "auto update is best" dogma...

It works best when the vendor can be trusted to only push security updates and occasional quality of life improvements. In general, automatic updates tend to be a vector for bloat, user-hostile features (e.g. spyware), and user-hostile business practices (e.g. remote bricking).

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by Wowfunhappy on Saturday December 15, 2018 @06:26PM (#18690928)
Which vendors fit this criteria for you?

I am not aware of any, except—somewhat ironically—for some open source projects.

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by TeMPOraL on Sunday December 16, 2018 @02:12AM (#18692115)
> Which vendors fit this criteria for you?

None. Hence, personally, I dislike auto updates.

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by walterbell on Saturday December 15, 2018 @11:07PM (#18691696)
Microtik has a “bugfix” security update channel that can be selected in their routers mgmt interface. They also provide a “current/stable” channel which delivers new features.
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by nitrogen on Saturday December 15, 2018 @02:03PM (#18689776)
...maybe today I'm starting to see a crack in my "auto update is best" dogma...

For me that crack came when an automatic update to Android removed Exchange server support from my tablet (around 2015). I no longer had a good workflow for keeping up with work communication, which ultimately, as a sometimes-remote dev at the time, cost me a lot of productivity and reputation at that job.

Now, anything that involves my productivity or quality of life (e g. thermostat) is on a manual update process as much as possible.

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by stdplaceholder on Saturday December 15, 2018 @02:31PM (#18689917)
I just checked my OnHub. It is the original, now over 3 years old. It got five updates this year, none of which I noticed. It's too bad that it's nearly guaranteed that they will kill this product line at some point in the future.
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by tatoalo on Saturday December 15, 2018 @01:47PM (#18689703)
Same reason I've also switched to G-WiFi, lately I've been having issues with iOS devices disconnecting randomly and after a couple of seconds the connection would have been established again.

I've tried playing around with DHCP but nothing changed, maybe my it's my ISP's router which is a pita to work with...(vodafone).

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by TimTheTinker on Saturday December 15, 2018 @03:03PM (#18690087)
If you have a 1500+ sqft house, want an easy setup & excellent coverage, and want pro-level capabilities, try a Ubiquiti UniFi setup. Troy Hunt did this and is converted: https://www.troyhunt.com/ubiquiti-all-the-things-how-i-final...

If you've got less square footage (or don't need top speeds everywhere), want to spend less money, and want something really easy to set up, try Ubiquiti AmpliFi. Here's Troy's writeup on that: https://www.troyhunt.com/how-i-finally-fixed-my-parents-dodg...

Personally, I am amply served by a quad-core HP thin client ($70 on eBay) running pfSense (w/ Intel server NIC, $25 on eBay) and a Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-AC-LR ($75-90 used on eBay). My living space is 1500 sqft. Internet speed is 150Mb/s up and down, and I get that speed of WiFi nearly all over the house. Total cost was less than $200.

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by libdjml on Saturday December 15, 2018 @08:40PM (#18691312)
Given the posted article is about the poor security posture of most home routers, has anyone inspected ubiquiti?

I gather they have a bug bounty which is a good start, but so do Netgear and their routers are still full of bad vulns.

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by arminiusreturns on Sunday December 16, 2018 @12:05AM (#18691828)
It is worth remember that unlike those home routers, Ubiquiti's EdgeOS is based on a production major network os, Vyatta, (as is VyOs), and therefor has a lot more scrutiny and bug fixing than those other things, which are often even more complicated by the lack of foss hardware or standardized ways to do things (many routers are stuck on whatever the manufacturer put on it in the factory). I'm sure Ubiquiti's code is probably ripe for fuzzing, etc, but a well configured EdgeOS device I would put against any cisco, cumulus , extremeos, routeros, junos, pfsense, ipfire, etc device any day. The main benefit of something like Ubiquiti being asic offload that wouldn't exist if you did something like pfsense on cots x86.

The real irony of how vulnerable these devices are, is that often they are based on tech that is foss that has updates to fix those issues but has been carefully packaged up inside a blackbox the consumer doesn't get to control and therefor doesnt get those updates.

Once again, why we need a "right to root".

For national security!

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by Fnoord on Sunday December 16, 2018 @03:46AM (#18692326)
Yes, nice advertisement and before I read this article I'd have agreed but the bad news is I just verified that my 2 EdgeOS products don't have NX support. Heck, one of them uses the Cavium processor mentioned in the PDFs.
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by freebsd4me on Sunday December 16, 2018 @02:53AM (#18692211)
> Ubiquiti's EdgeOS is based on a production major network os, Vyatta, (as is VyOs), and therefor has a lot more scrutiny and bug fixing than those other things

Apparently you’ve not really looked at EdgeOS. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/16/ubiquiti_networking...

Vyatta was acquired by Brocade in 2012. Ubiquiti forked after that.

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by arminiusreturns on Sunday December 16, 2018 @01:27PM (#18694328)
EdgeOS was really based on VyOS... which was based on Vyatta, which was still being used on major production systems even before the brocade acquisition. I have used it in prod myself. I should have said VyOs but still, the point gets across to those not looking to nitpick.
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by vesinisa on Saturday December 15, 2018 @06:38PM (#18690963)
I got finally frustrated with the flaky WiFi reception at my parents-in-law's and bought a UniFi AP for them. I am very satisfied - the WiFi reception is now either 5/5 or 4/5 in every room, while the previous Asus WiFi router had no reception in some rooms.

But I was rather surprised by the lack of almost any configuration options in the UniFi. No dedicated WebUI, just a few basic configuration options (SSID + WPA2 password) in the mobile app.

Do I need to procure a Windows machine and download the Windows app to configure and take full advantage of the AP? What extra options can I set up with the desktop app in addition to the basic configuration options in the mobile app? As said though - it works really well as it is.

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by TimTheTinker on Saturday December 15, 2018 @07:00PM (#18691009)
The desktop app serves up the same web UI that the UniFi Cloud Key does. So you need either the cloud key or a computer on which to run the web app (even a Raspberry Pi is reportedly capable of serving it; I just fire it up on my Macbook Pro when it's time for an update or config change).

There is a dizzying amount of information and options in the web UI, but it's designed well so the basics are well-presented and accessible.

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by Fnoord on Sunday December 16, 2018 @03:23AM (#18692272)
The UniFi Cloud Key is basically a piece of hardware akin to the Raspberry Pi, but only serving that purpose. The UniFi Controller software is written in Java so it will run on any machine which runs Java. You can even run it in Docker. You can also use SSH to connect to the AP.

The UniFi line is rather easy to configure with the UniFi Controller. The EdgeMAX line can utilise UNMS (which can be run in a VM or Docker) for configuration but also HTTP(S). EdgeMAX devices are much more powerful, allowing fine-grained configuration via SSH when HTTP(S)/UNMS doesn't suffice. For UniFi line you should be OK with the UniFi Controller software.

TL;DR: The UniFi line has a lower barrier of entry.

Something else of note: it appears Ubiquity wants users to be able to use UNMS for UniFi products in the future. That's good news because right now you need 2 controller software for 2 product lines from the same company.

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by glup on Saturday December 15, 2018 @06:17PM (#18690892)
I've happened on a similar solution after years of testing --- pfSense in a VM (with a dedicated NIC) on my NAS + backup box, and two Ubiquiti AC Pros. By far the fastest, most robust, and easy to configure system, plus nice benefits like pfBlockerNG (similar in functionality to a Pi Hole) and OpenVPN. Tutorials and documentation are generally pretty good for pfSense and UniFi is extremely intuitive.
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by ScottBurson on Saturday December 15, 2018 @01:03PM (#18689505)
I use a fanless PC running OpenBSD. It's a bit of work to configure, but I think I can trust it.
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by walterbell on Saturday December 15, 2018 @05:35PM (#18690745)
PC Engines APU2 fanless PC has multiple NICs, optional LTE/SSD, AMD CPU and coreboot open-source firmware. Widely used with pfSense and OpenBSD. TPM available via LPC bus.
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by hsivonen on Saturday December 15, 2018 @01:46PM (#18689697)
Passively-cooled Apollo Lake x86_64 computer (e.g. from Compulab) with wifi and two Ethernet ports running a mainstream distro with proper security updates (e.g. Ubuntu). Self-configured dnsmasq, ufw and hostapd.
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by geofft on Saturday December 15, 2018 @01:10PM (#18689541)
Another approach here is that executable stacks, ASLR bypasses, etc. are only ways to make an exploit easier, and reducing your attack surface in the first place is a decent approach.

The internet-facing side of my router does nothing interesting (I haven't enabled the onboard VPN, remote management, etc.) and I trust everyone with access to the LAN side of my home wifi not to attempt to exploit my router in the first place. That said, I do wonder how much attack surface is exposed to websites making permissible cross-domain requests (blind GETs from image loads, blind POSTs from <form action="http://192.168.0.1">, etc.).

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by subway on Saturday December 15, 2018 @01:44PM (#18689689)
There are a ton of ARM based routers out on the market, both in user-friendly products (most current high end routers), and geek-friendly products (EspressoBIN, Turris Mox).

I'm personally running OpenWRT on an EspressoBIN with an Atheros card, but I keep eyeing the Turris pretty hard.

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by hsivonen on Saturday December 15, 2018 @02:10PM (#18689810)
ARM-based products may be stuck on whatever kernel snapshot the board support package had. With x86_64 one can expect proper kernel security updates.
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by subway on Saturday December 15, 2018 @02:56PM (#18690055)
The boards I suggested are well supported in Mainline linux (though there are a couple minor patches that haven't yet been merged).
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by ryacko on Saturday December 15, 2018 @02:22PM (#18689876)
There is insufficient demand for software warranties. It doesn’t seem unreasonable to ask for a warranty of at least two years, which means one would get two years plus how many additional years the product continues to be sold.

Could even encourage security by using read-only flash, only a reboot is needed to clear any viruses.

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by walterbell on Sunday December 16, 2018 @10:43AM (#18693502)
Microsoft has proposed a model where they provide Linux security updates for 10 years, licensed separately from a device vendor that may go out of business. Let's see if Azure Sphere routers make it to market in 2019 - and at what price point. Maybe they can bundle the hardware in a single subscription service, or partner directly with cable companies.
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by hsivonen on Saturday December 15, 2018 @03:44PM (#18690247)
You don't need a warranty to get kernel security patches _in practice_ if you run a mainstream distro on x86_64 hardware (which is available passively-cooled with low power consumption).
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by rubatuga on Saturday December 15, 2018 @02:12PM (#18689823)
Espressobin is really bad, they didn't implement pcie drivers properly. I would stay away, and use an intel atom board from the 2010's.
Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by subway on Saturday December 15, 2018 @02:50PM (#18690016)
Yeah -- that's probably a good point. Don't run the vendor kernel. That's honestly a good rule for most ARM boards -- you should avoid the vendor provided kernel tree.

To clean up the odd PCIe behavior on the Espressobin with mainline 4.17, there are 6 kernel patches required. Arch and OpenWRT both already ship them, and I'm in the process of getting them in to Buildroot. I'd expect they'll land in the mainline eventually.

https://github.com/jrb/buildroot/tree/espressobin/board/glob...

edit: sorry; 3 PCI patches. The other 3 mitigate other board/chip oddities.

Re:A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS by freebsd4me on Sunday December 16, 2018 @02:56AM (#18692215)
You know that FreeBSD and pfsense run on espresso.bin, right?