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Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @11:05PM (#18661310)
Microsoft's GUI management tools were really good and generally very discoverable. IMO they were a much better way to manage an OS than cryptically named CLI programs and text files. And most of them worked remotely. And by comparison to modern software they can not even remotely be considered bloated. Every electron application ever made is larger than all of RSAT.

Now of course they suck ass because MS has no idea what it's doing anymore.

Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by bayindirh on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @01:15AM (#18661738)
It's almost 2019. Are we still fighting over this? OTOH, purely from my experience, MS's tools are good for managing a domain, or some computers.

When you start to administer hundreds or thousands of servers, scriptability of CLI tools and pliability of text files trumps all computer automation.

xCAT and Salt are two tools (that I use regularly) which are built on these properties and can manage thousands of servers with a "flick of a finger".

Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by StudentStuff on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @01:51AM (#18661869)
On that note, these administration issues are why Walmart & Kroger are on SUSE, much of the IT work you see smaller chains employing people to do has been automated away, or reduced to having any available employee follow a (very simple) guide on how to netboot the machine for re-imaging.
Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by bayindirh on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @03:05AM (#18662191)
A very simple FAI or Kickstart server with small tools to enable provisioning can automate a lot of things in a non-IT oriented workspace.

A simple HTML form to "arm" the installation server, a simple reboot and PXE booting can be much more effective than all the painkillers combined for remedying the headaches of IT people and managers alike.

If you don't roll changes that often, you can distribute emergency USBs to install servers and workstations. Even a single USB can detect and install the system accordingly.

Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by pcdoodle on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @08:20AM (#18663597)
Hell yeah we're going to fight over it. Whenever something that works is turned into something that sucks, we gotta point it out until it's no longer sucky.
Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by bayindirh on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @02:37PM (#18667027)
I think there's a misunderstanding. I was talking about fighting over "MS vs. Linux" on the subject of administration paradigm.

Of course we should point out sucky tools regardless of its platform.

Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by dethswatch on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @12:51PM (#18666018)
> scriptability of CLI tools and pliability of text files >trumps all computer automa

I feel the need to sing, "You may have both.... you _may_ have both.... it's not so hard to imagine... MS even did it in certain products..."

Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by bayindirh on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @02:40PM (#18667062)
Yes, it's technically possible. However, it's not always implemented like that. Also, in reality we don't have both, at least in my realm.

Being able to tune a system from top to bottom solely with text files is just amazing. Also, some people hate "everything is a file" philosophy, but it's the enabler of this configurability.

When I started programming Linux and saw that everything was accessible via normal file system, it was a big relief compared to W32's iceberg environment, where you cannot see everything and sometimes water is too cold to dive that deep.

Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by amazingman on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @01:01AM (#18661693)
Those cryptically named programs are scriptable, and those text files (including scripts) are easy to version and backup.
Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by emteycz on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @02:31AM (#18662022)
Windows was and is scriptable as well (but it must be said that you mostly had to discover it yourself, documentation was lacking)

Backup is done the other way around, you backup your configuration scripts

Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @07:59AM (#18663482)
Windows servers used to have a NTBackup, which could just back up all the settings ("system state") if that was what you wanted for some reason.
Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by brian_herman__ on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @03:23PM (#18667415)
Windows Server Backup doesn't do this on 2016 or 2019?
Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by pjc50 on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @05:40AM (#18662773)
> GUI management tools were really good and generally very discoverable

The snap-ins?

A main criticism of all this is that the usual tools didn't work remotely - you need a different, undiscoverable, possibly differently licensed, set of tools from what you use to change settings on your local computer. And of course you can't easily set up Computer A and then clone its settings to Computer B; you can only do this globally through things like Group Policy.

Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @07:37AM (#18663358)
> A main criticism of all this is that the usual tools didn't work remotely

I can't think of any that I use regularly that don't work remotely. Which snap-ins are you referring to? Most of them you just right-click on the top level object and select "connect to another computer".

Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by pjc50 on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @08:26AM (#18663644)
Most of Control Panel, such as the network configuration (I realise this isn't a snapin, sorry)

A quick check shows the availability of "connect to another computer" is a bit random; I can do it in services.msc and taskschd.msc but not in diskmgmt.msc . Maybe that's why I've never found it before.

Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @09:35AM (#18664198)
You can manage disks remotely using the Computer Management snapin, under Storage->Disk Management.
Re:Windows Server 2019 Includes OpenSSH by h1d on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @10:47PM (#18669719)
GUI is something you can't easily copy and paste which is s real killer. And with options spread all over with 3 level depth of more "options" is getting old quick.