Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Water Underneath

Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by whitepoplar on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @03:26PM (#18658554)

I think we need to rethink the concept of a university from first principles: How much does it actually cost to provide the best education in the world? A sizable library, an old building with empty rooms, and professors? I'd bet you could make instruction 5x better with 5x lower costs than we have today. The real problem isn't building/finding a campus, though, it's figuring out how to make the cheap version of Harvard more prestigious than Harvard itself. Universities run on prestige and people pay vast amounts of money for social signaling (to others and even themselves).

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by coliveira on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @04:21PM (#18659011)

Ivy Leagues are clubs. People are not paying for education, but for the price of participating in the club.

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by Konnstann on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @05:10PM (#18659448)

Ivy League undergraduates are paying for participation in the club. Ivy League grad students are paying (in the case of masters) for access to research institutions with top PIs and vast resources, as well as connections in their field.

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by krastanov on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @04:35PM (#18659140)

Most Ivy League schools are "need-blind" for admission and have great financial aid. You do not need to pay to join the club if you can not afford it.

On the other hand, if your family is wealthy, you probably went to a great high school which does correlate with getting into an Ivy.

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by polskibus on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @03:31PM (#18658592)

You need large grants and already renowned professors. I'm guessing that's what is really expensive. The problem we have today is that the gap between academia research jobs and the industry is possibly the widest ever, at least in some professions. Deep learning is just one example, but the generic Data Science trend in the industry has been syphoning people away from research on a larger scale.

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by rubidium on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @03:35PM (#18658617)

Depends on the domain.

Undergrad humanities? Sure a community of professors and books is sufficient.

If it's graduate education in the sciences or engineering, then world class research laboratories are required.

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by hopler on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @04:48PM (#18659245)

Not really. The research is expensive. The education isn't. Grad students are employees of research labs, not guests.

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by tunesmith on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @03:36PM (#18658623)

Part of the problem is that it isn't just the best education. One person might have the most brilliant idea in the history of mankind, but if enacting it requires collaboration, they'll need a network of people to help them. Smart people, if the idea is counter-intuitive. So any solution would have to include the development of strong ties between the students.

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by zdragnar on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @03:56PM (#18658774)

Back when I was in school in the early naughties, it was a given that, if you were a humanities student, your tuition largely subsidized the STEM students, because your degree required virtually no specialized equipment, just a building, a professor, and some administrative overhead.

STEM students required all sorts of wild equipment, some so specialized and sensitive that the buildings had to have extra protections built in so they weren't bothered by vibration or electromagnetic interference from nearby lightrail trains. Their tuition wouldn't cover that.

Of course, the school also splurged on pointless real estate expansions, a relatively empty, but massive, student "union" building, intense administrative overhead, sports stadiums paid for by adding on hundreds to student fees (which of course weren't part of tuition, but you had to pay them anyway), and so forth.

If you're a humanities student, you get the short end of the stick from many different directions- paying more than your education costs to support others, for a degree that will earn substantially less than others, which likely has fewer industries that specifically require your degree (putting you in more competition for said jobs against students with other similar degrees).

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by scottlocklin on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @04:22PM (#18659031)

Funny I started in electrical engineering and eventually got a degree in physics; don't remember any "wild equipment" -I remember a few diodes, some breadboards and some oscilloscopes from WW-2 era. Pretty sure you could buy all the 'wild stuff' I ever saw as an undergraduate for less than a year's salary and use it for the whole school forever.

Most of the money goes to salaries, and at this point, most of the salaries go to administrators who add no value. There's also a lot of duplication and nonsense in modern curricula; someone could easily do a better job.

It's bad enough the Thiel Fellowship looks pretty good; you have to assume modern college has nothing to do with actually educating people; seems to be more of a codpiece than anything else.

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by triviatise on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @01:27AM (#18661778)

at my school EE had a full semiconductor fab, nuclear engineering had a nuclear reactor, CS had a full networked computer system with 512x512 UI that predated the internet, super computers, astronomy had an observatory etc.

Currently I think they have an offsite particle accelerator in physics, but Im sure they had sensitive measuring equipment of all kinds when I was there.

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by usrusr on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @03:23AM (#18662257)

But that's still consistent with what GP was writing: that expensive stuff is research, not teaching, funded by grants, not tuition. Some students will take a role in experiments running at those facilities, but many will never see those places from the inside.

There is a simple thought experiment to tell research facilities from teaching facilities: if they increased the number of admissions, would they need another particle accelerator?

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by selimthegrim on Wednesday December 12, 2018 @05:36AM (#18662750)

Grinnell?

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Re:Harvard Quietly Amasses California Vineyards and the Wate... by krastanov on Tuesday December 11, 2018 @04:33PM (#18659118)

For large institutions this is completely backwards. Tuition is negligible part of the income - much more comes from grants that are granted mainly to STEM faculty, and that money (through "overhead" payments into a common pot) is then used to subsidize the humanities (and the more theoretical STEM fields which are also fairly cheap).

To be clear, I am not against this: I do want the money granted to my STEM department to be used to subsidize the humanities, because they have their importance as well. However, it is not true that the humanities students "get the short end of the stick" when it comes to subsidizing.

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