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Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by Yizahi on Thursday December 06, 2018 @11:22AM (#18619347)
Arguably Google is already abusing their monopoly power but in the way that people like. I'm talking about AMP. In the future AMP/regular page boundary will blur and Chrome/GSearch/AMPpages will merge in the ubiquitous googlenet hosted on google servers (because it will work better than regular internet pages). Almost everybody will be happy after this and Mozilla will fall into obscurity.

Basically you can't create a revolution in tech by failing once and then trying harder the second time and it looks like Mozilla failed even while being better. The only way for Mozilla to win is (like linked article suggests) is to dominate somewhere else and then leverage that to push web browser. They won't do this and don't want to really.

PS: maybe they could buy/merge with other privacy oriented players in tech and create end-to-end privacy services that are usable, seemingly secure and integrated and then push this offering. But I can't see a big market today for this offer if it would exist.

PPS: also to add to less known evil moves by Google - their U2F websites refuse to work in Firefox, despite it supporting U2F for a long time.

Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by Wowfunhappy on Thursday December 06, 2018 @01:54PM (#18620917)
> Arguably Google is already abusing their monopoly power but in the way that people like. I'm talking about AMP.

Do people actually like AMP?

I hate it and strongly wish I could disable it for all Google search results. It's supposed to make pages load in more quickly, but for some reason they always seem to be slower for me.

Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by untog on Thursday December 06, 2018 @02:30PM (#18621243)
Broadly speaking, yes they do. It is faster in the vast majority of cases, and non-techie friends of mine speak enthusiastically about the lightning bolt icon. Of course, they don't understand the implications of it.
Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by Izkata on Thursday December 06, 2018 @02:43PM (#18621342)
> and non-techie friends of mine speak enthusiastically about the lightning bolt icon.

Which makes me think it's just confirmation bias. They expect it to be faster, and so perceive it as faster. Just like when Windows Vista was presented to users as the new Windows 7 (only the branding was changed for the experiment), and they openly stated it was noticeably better/faster than Windows Vista.

Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by Wowfunhappy on Thursday December 06, 2018 @02:50PM (#18621431)
I'm not quite so quick to dismiss this out of hand, despite my own (negative) experiences with AMP.

Google is certainly capable of making mistakes, but I find it hard to believe they would invest so much into AMP without strong metrics to indicate that AMP pages load faster overall. And on a theoretical level, the explanations of why AMP should be faster also make sense.

Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by Izkata on Thursday December 06, 2018 @03:38PM (#18621957)
Note the phrasing, that's an important part of what I'm referring to: they're talking about the icon instead of the speed directly.
Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by kiriakasis on Sunday December 09, 2018 @06:10AM (#18640313)
In my experience it is the google search app that is extremely slow (android on a underpowered nokia 6) I installed duckduckgo search because google hangs my device for a few second every 5-6 keypresses
Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by jcranmer on Thursday December 06, 2018 @12:00PM (#18619748)
> PPS: also to add to less known evil moves by Google - their U2F websites refuse to work in Firefox, despite it supporting U2F for a long time.

The one that still sticks in my craw is that they never bothered to add support for Hangouts in Firefox. Hangouts was modified to use WebRTC in Chrome, but relied on a plugin in Firefox--despite Firefox actually implementing the relevant WebRTC features first.

Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by larrik on Thursday December 06, 2018 @12:21PM (#18620018)
Hmm, I use Hangouts in Firefox...
Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by cpeterso on Thursday December 06, 2018 @01:46PM (#18620830)
Hangouts supports WebRTC video in Firefox now, four years after supporting WebRTC in Chrome (2014-2018).

I've maintained a timeline of Hangouts' WebRTC support (as part of my work to track the sunsetting of NPAPI plugins, other than Flash, in Firefox that blocked Win64):

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Win64#History

Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by kenhwang on Thursday December 06, 2018 @01:35PM (#18620724)
The chat or the video? The video hasn't worked in long time now.
Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by Wowfunhappy on Thursday December 06, 2018 @01:56PM (#18620923)
I haven't tried Firefox, but Hangouts with video works in Safari for me.

I had to bookmark a Hangouts room URL though, which I think I opened from within GMail some time ago. If I try to just load hangouts.google.com, it won't work.

Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by larrik on Friday December 07, 2018 @02:06PM (#18630534)
Video, although I don't have a camera (the host does, though).
Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by dmitriid on Thursday December 06, 2018 @01:01PM (#18620415)
A recent example is how Chrome broke audio on a lot of websites https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/15/17358752/google-chrome-66...

I won't even link to the discussion in Chrome's bugtracker, Chrome team didn't even test the change, apparently.

They also actively build "Chrome-only" websites.

Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by Wowfunhappy on Thursday December 06, 2018 @02:12PM (#18621074)
The Chrome audio thing really, really bothers me.

The change broke a ton of neat, interesting games that are never going to be updated. And given Google's aggressive autoupdates, running an older version of Chrome to experience a specific old website is non-trivial.

The change signals a blatant disregard for preserving pieces of art, culture, and shared history.

Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by untog on Thursday December 06, 2018 @02:29PM (#18621232)
IMO that's not an abuse of monopoly thing at all. It's not as if removing auto-play audio will push users towards some Google-only product, if anything it would mean fewer users choosing Chrome.
Re:State of web browsers in 2018 by kiriakasis on Sunday December 09, 2018 @06:14AM (#18640328)
Disagree. It can be a push for web developers and amateur site-buildign-people-that-have-not-that-much-interest-in-the-web-shenanigans to use google-approved APIs.

Not by promoting google as better but by simply promoting a view of google-web and other-web.