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Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by gnicholas on Wednesday December 05, 2018 @02:34PM (#18611662)
> If I were the insurance companies, I'd be putting pressure on the car companies

And also give car owners an incentive to keep their keys safer, given how many vehicles out there are vulnerable to this. Just fixing this for new cars is only half the solution.

I remember back in the 80s my parents got a discount on their insurance for installing a third brake light in the back window of their old Camaro. If my insurance gave me a discount, I'd get a faraday cage for my keys. I'm considering doing it anyway, even though my house is pretty far from my driveway, and we have cameras.

I've searched for nice-looking faraday cages but haven't found anything good. I think there's a market for fashionable key/phone faraday cages, between this car theft issue and the push to digital detox.

EDIT: curious why this is downvoted? I'm not saying that this shouldn't be fixed by car manufacturers going forward, but we need to do something about the millions of cars on the road already. Is there another solution that would make more sense? Or is there something I'm missing here?

Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by tedunangst on Wednesday December 05, 2018 @05:28PM (#18613327)
It's unclear how the insurance company would verify you're using the faraday cage. Presumably you're not willing to accept responsibility for the loss.
Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by gnicholas on Wednesday December 05, 2018 @05:54PM (#18613564)
Sure, this wouldn't mean I'm responsible for any theft of my vehicle, just that it would reduce the likelihood that it would happen — benefiting both the insurer and insured.

The companies could even give away nice-looking faraday boxes that cost them next to nothing to make, and which would probably have decent adoption among people who have requested them. That would cut the hard costs to be very low, and give them a branding/perception benefit.

Imagine seeing "Mercury Insurance is giving away a Fob Box to any customer who wants one." It wouldn't make me switch to Mercury, but it would make me think more highly of them. And if I were just out of college and choosing my first insurance company, I'd undoubtedly choose them.

Given the spate of thefts and the likelihood that it continues, a promo like this could resonate for a long time and get mentioned in lots of news stories.

Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by burfog on Wednesday December 05, 2018 @03:44PM (#18612337)
Use a cookie tin. Holiday ones are often decorated nicely.
Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by gerbilly on Thursday December 06, 2018 @09:06AM (#18618104)
> And also give car owners an incentive to keep their keys safer, given how many vehicles out there are vulnerable to this. Just fixing this for new cars is only half the solution.

Why is it always up to us to deal with the consequences of all this poorly thought out new crap?

It sort of reminds me of the way they want us to believe that "identity theft" should be our problem to clean up, when its really caused by banks poor security practices.

Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by entee on Wednesday December 05, 2018 @03:24PM (#18612142)
Could simply putting the thing in a foil/metal lined drawer in your entryway do the trick?
Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by jl6 on Wednesday December 05, 2018 @03:55PM (#18612442)
I do exactly this. I lined a cookie tin with foil, and tested it by holding the closed box (with the keys inside) next to the car. It didn’t unlock. Then I opened the box, and it did unlock. The box has to be closed (lid fully on, no gaps) or the car will still unlock.

Of course this only foils overnight theft. I imagine it would be trivial for someone to follow me from a car park to a public location and sit next to me to get the key signal from my pocket.

Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by jjeaff on Wednesday December 05, 2018 @04:50PM (#18612970)
I would imagine the signal emmitted from the fob is time sensitive. The codes should be invalid within a few seconds. If not, shame on them for such a terrible step backwards in security.
Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by gnicholas on Wednesday December 05, 2018 @04:05PM (#18612534)
Does an unlined cookie tin not work? Does having the lid mostly closed (but with some small gaps) at least cut the effective range?
Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by Scoundreller on Thursday December 06, 2018 @12:11AM (#18615598)
I’m wondering if a tin facing away from the door may be sufficient since the signal will be reflecting in the wrong direction.

Then just a metallized flap for extra protection.

Leakage is fine. As long as it’s in the right direction.

Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by jl6 on Friday December 07, 2018 @03:09AM (#18625918)
I didn’t test rigorously but an unlined tin did not block the signal when the tin was right next to the car. Maybe it still reduces the range.
Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by gnicholas on Wednesday December 05, 2018 @03:47PM (#18612361)
I've watched some DIY videos and am considering doing just this. I'm not sure how tight a seal you need though (one video said you want overlap from lid to sides/bottom), and the draws we have there aren't super tight. Maybe we'd make an enclosure within the drawer and be able to line that sufficiently?

If anyone knows how much leakage there would be for fobs/phones, and whether it makes a difference for this application (where the sniffer/attacker would be 10+ feet away), I'd love to know it!

Re:Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to ste... by stretchwithme on Wednesday December 05, 2018 @09:11PM (#18614783)
Would be easy to test what is needed. Wrap up your keys and take them to the vehicle.

I just completely wrapped my remote with one layer of aluminum foil and that was enough. A small gap on side was enough for the car to detect it.