Indeed.

But of course, how many UK and American citizens know the history of Iran, our role in overthrowing the democratically elected Mossadegh, who rightfully wanted to nationalize their oil (the obvious source of the Occidents umbrage too...) and our installation of the repressive Shah Pahlavi regime that led to the Iranian revolution of 1979 that initially featured students and workers and such, but later turned into a purge, as most revolutions do, in which the powerful theocrats basically seized the nation, and thus bringing us into the modern era and the detente with Iran that still makes no sense.

Contrast this with the constant support of the various Hashemite kings directly since Trans-Jordan and Syria-Palestina were handed over... basically we set up satrapies in the wake of seizing the Ottoman empire and not being able to manage it ourselves...

If they haden't been so determined to wipe out (their words) the only working democracy in the region and the only country in the region that doesn't from time to time persecute Jews, maybe? (This is not a defense for everything Israel does, but an observation of the fact that it is considered a working democracy and it is the only country in the region that can be said to be safe for Jews to live in.)

This is misleading. Look what happened to Iran when they tried democracy. The west ruined it. We can’t have it both ways. Western meddling has caused way too much harm in the region, and it shows no sign of stopping.

I'm in no way defending the meddling with Iran. I'm just pointing out the situation now.

I actually went to Tehran in 2000 (oil & gas industry related trip), and it wasn't a bit like the anti-Iran propaganda machine would have had me believe - everyone I met was really friendly, and nobody seemed particularly conservative or over-zealous in their religious views. On top of that, the food was incredible, and lots of people even spoke great English!

Iran is also home to many historical sites - if politics were different, it would likely be a popular tourist destination.

Well, isn't Iran "the biggest sponsor of terrorism"? While the Saudi Arabia is "the greatest ally" of the West in fighting it?

That’s the rationale. Of course, the Saudis do a lot to promote terrorism themselves.

Calling Iran the biggest sponsor of terrorism is gaslighting at best. The proof is in the pudding with Kingdom of Saudi Barbaria funding 90% of mosques around the world with their hardline Wahhabism, Salafism, and Deobandism[1][2].

15 of the 19 hijackers who blew up a city block were citizens of our ally, Saudi Barbaria. When the King was confronted over the attacks, he blamed the Israeli Mossad. Iran has never touched American soil, ever. So calling Iran the biggest sponsor of terrorism is gaslighting at best.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Funding_factor

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi#Presence

>Estimates of Saudi spending on religious causes abroad include "upward of $100 billion";[318] between $2 and 3 billion per year since 1975 (compared to the annual Soviet propaganda budget of $1 billion/year);[319] and "at least $87 billion" from 1987–2007.[320]

The total opposite, even though big media likes to say otherwise. Iran is fairly benign, but Israel has beef with them. There is a lot of propaganda over Iran. I feel like it's probably the next one-sided big war.

That's all lies.

Whenever the US issues a statement on Iran, it is best to just assume it's total agenda-driven bullshit.

They "only" need to topple the current teocracy and put secular government in place while not turning into failed state. With Iran military being the second largest military in Iran after the revolutionary guard that is next to impossible. It will lead to situation which will make Syria look enviable.

Otherwise you are right - Iran is the natueal ally in the region. And it was such until 1979.

Why does Iran need to ditch their theocracy to be our ally, but Saudi Arabia gets to keep theirs?

That’s what I don’t understand. The Iranian government is a bunch of oppressive fuckheads and stands for many things we oppose... but that’s even more the case with Saudi Arabia, so we treat like kings.

Because their theocracy refers to US as great satan? That complicates any possible alliance a bit. I think that they may also hold grudge for US support of US' best buddy Saddam Hussein during Iran - Iraq war that cost them a nice chunk of a million lives.

Would they still do that if we made friends with them?

That could take decades to accomplish and would require US to throw Israel under the bus. And the US would not win anything of value.

> Because their theocracy refers to US as great satan

In all honesty, the US has given Iran plenty of reasons for relations to be somewhat frosty.

In more recent times, Trump has been rather vocal against Iran with his trademark agressive Twitter 'pish' - so there's plenty of name calling on both sides, and hardly justifies the current state of affairs.

Saudi Arabias school book dont have nice words for america either. The 9/11 cause was that a whole generation of islamic men grew up hating infidels (russians & americans alike).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_textbook_controv...

It's all about Israel. Iran wants to destroy Israel, erase it from the map. Saudi Arabia is happy to keep its mouth shut in exchange for weapons, oil money and influence.

Saudi doesn’t keep it’s mouth shut. It exports hatred and murder loudly, while it’s western allies keep their mouths shut or even defend them.

This is like saying, in 1939, its sad because it sure seems like the Germans would make far better allies for us. There were plenty of people who said that, but With the Nazis in power, they were very wrong.

The Iranian government is a police state controlled by a bunch of fanatical fascists, who are one of the most successful terrorism exporting states ever. Just recently they were caught attempting to kill people in Belgium and France. And those are just the recent catches.

And that’s different from the Saudis how?

The Iranians are very aggressively attempting to take over the middle east. The Egyptians Saudis are attempting to prevent this. The battlefields today are Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine.

What stops the Saudis from doing the same? Given current events, it looks like they are.

Their vastly smaller population. Also, unlike Iran, they have not been talking about doing things like wiping out Isreal, etc.

Once Iran consolidates power in the areas they're operating in (Yemen, Iraq, Syria), the next obvious target is Saudi Arabia.

Back to your 1939 analogy, that sounds just like reasons for allying with the Nazis.

Could you please provide sources?

What do you need sources for? tomohawks characterization of Iran? That seems like a really strange thing to need sources for.

No it doesn't. I've read manufactured consent. I understand and see the propaganda being targeted at Iran by USA, Saudi, & Israel. This is how we got into the Iraq war. I would like sources.

Come on. Do you not read the news or are you just going to reply with "fake news" next?

Here, a source for the murder plot:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46043404

> a police state controlled by a bunch of fanatical fascists

This is a country that regularly reaffirms its Fatwa calling for the murder of Salman Rushdie. In 2016 they even increased the bounty for his murder.

Im sorry, I just don't trust the people who got us into the Iraq war to tell us anything about foreign policy from three war monger countries being funded by US imperialism.

Iraq, libya, afghanistan, vietnam, laos, cambodia, korea, all based on lies which corporate media sold to us. That's only the tip of the iceberg too.

I am skeptical, and so should everyone else. If we aren't skeptical, we'll be going "why the heck did we do this?" in 8 years.

>This is a country that regularly reaffirms its Fatwa calling for the murder of Salman Rushdie. In 2016 they even increased the bounty for his murder.

Saudi Arabia just killed a journalist with no reprocussions, is bombing the absolute shit out of Yemen (civilians!) using US weapons and intelligence. Democracy Now! had an episode this week about Israeli, US, & Saudi targeted assassination programs.

It's easy to see that the corporate media is selling this potential war. How do you trust it?

In my opinion, the rest of the world should be stopping US, Israel, and Saudi from continuing their global terrorism programs and ending imperialism.

>In my opinion, the rest of the world should be stopping US, Israel, and Saudi from continuing their global terrorism programs and ending imperialism.

You are not alone. There are many of us in the West who tire of the duplicity and arrogance of our governments actions around the world - those of us who have taken the time to actually educate ourselves about the statistics of the Wests' Coalition War Machine find ourselves nearly overwhelmed, daily, with disdain at what we so-called enlightened civilians are allowing our governments to do around the world, in our name.

Just the fact that nobody knows what's going on in Yemen at the moment (imperialist war machine out of control), but can easily name the Kardashians, is disheartening enough.

But if you ever meet refugees from countries victimised by America's illegal, heinous wars, its another thing entirely. If you don't get angry about what our war machines are doing, you're simply on the wrong side this time around.

This time, we are the bad guys.