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Re:Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare by toomuchtodo on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @04:08PM (#18506123)
This isn't feasible. The refineries in the US are not designed for the same oil produced by the Permian basin (the Permian is producing light crude, US refineries are configured for medium to heavy crude). More importantly, oil is fungible on the world market; you can't effectively dictate "Oil produced in America is consumed in America" without drastically regulating the energy market with public policy (not going to happen).

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-oil-exports-study/sha... (Shale oil growth to overwhelm U.S. refiners, fuel exports: study)

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/shale-oil-has-a-refining-pro... (Shale oil has a refining problem, and Morgan Stanley thinks investors can profit)

If you want to lessen your dependency on middle east energy, switch to electric cars, trucks, and busses faster.

Re:Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare by mc32 on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @04:21PM (#18506216)
China imports more oil than we do and their demand for energy is only going to go up. We’re producing more energy domestically and lessening our reliance on foreign energy, so China has a bigger incentive to change their energy equation —in addition, their gov can just issue a decree and change policy with but a little corruption interfering a bit.
Re:Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare by toomuchtodo on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @04:47PM (#18506375)
We have spent a non-insignificant amount on the Fifth Fleet (25 navy vessels) to ensure the stable supply of middle eastern oil onto energy markets. That seems to be of substantial incentive to mitigate our need for oil to drive our economy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Fifth_Fleet

> Well, even a blind pig finds an acorn once in awhile. While working on a recent piece on how to cut $1 trillion from the $7-trillion-plus U.S. defense budget over the coming decade, I stumbled upon a provocative analysis by Roger Stern, an economic geographer at Princeton University. He says the U.S. has “mis-allocated” — others might say “wasted” — $8 trillion since 1976 protecting the oil flow from the Persian Gulf that fuels much of the global economy. Especially since in 2010, when the U.S. was the destination of less than 10 percent of the oil flowing out of the Gulf.

> The U.S. has insisted, since the days of the Carter Administration, that the oil flowing out of the Persian Gulf is a vital national-security interest of the U.S. Beyond that, Presidents and the Pentagon have said, the narrow Strait of Hormuz is a vulnerable bottleneck for shipping headed out of the Gulf. Any troublemaker — especially Iran — could bring the U.S. and world economies to their collective knees by shutting it down by sinking a couple of tankers as they pass through. Consequently, the U.S. has poured tons of money into the region since then, including three wars. It has bulked up its military forces in the neighborhood — including the U.S. Navy’s 5th Fleet, headquarters in Bahrain, smack dab in the middle of the gulf — to keep the oil flowing.

http://nation.time.com/2011/04/24/a-question-for-the-obama-a... (Have we wasted $8 trillion defending the Persian Gulf from a non-existent threat?)

Re:Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare by mc32 on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @05:16PM (#18506543)
Much of keeping gulf oil flowing is to keep the European and east Asian economies stable —they are petroleum poor. We get most of out foreign petros from Canada, Vz and Mx.

No doubt Trump would love to recall rhe fleet, if possible, but it’s not. Unless he’d like to see chaos in the world economy.

Re:Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare by pas on Thursday November 22, 2018 @04:13PM (#18512603)
How does the presence of the 5th Fleet ... make any difference? Are they on active patrol duty? How does this work?
Re:Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare by cronix on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @05:35PM (#18506652)
> Unless he’d like to see chaos in the world economy.

Like trade wars usually tend to cause?

Re:Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare by mc32 on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @05:44PM (#18506698)
Depends. Sometimes you have cause on your side. In this case we do know China does not play fair. Nothing weird about it except previous prezes always crossed their fingers, knocked on wood and hoped others would play fair just cuz. I’m actually pleased a president finally decided to call it for whst it is and do something about it and not just talk and take token steps for publicity and then forget about it.
Re:Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare by selimthegrim on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @05:23PM (#18506583)
My main concern is that the Permian Gulf Coast pipeline in the article is linking up to the Bayou Bridge one in Louisiana, and driving its construction rationale further. ETP is no saint and I don’t want to see them handed more of a reason to trample over people’s rights.
Re:Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare by jessaustin on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @05:05PM (#18506488)
"refineries in the US are not designed for the same oil"

"oil is fungible on the world market"

In the medium term, these two statements contradict each other. If all it takes to avoid a 1970s-style OPEC crisis is to update the facilities at a few refineries, that job will get done. Actually, that job will probably get done anyway, because after all, shipping oil overseas isn't free.

Re:Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare by b_tterc_p on Thursday November 22, 2018 @09:01AM (#18510014)
Adjusting for immaterial quality differences it is fungible, but I’d imagine the transportation costs are non negligible which sort of defeats the point, no?
Re:Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare by hnphillipj on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @04:31PM (#18506270)
Did your desire to use the word fungible outweigh the fact that the US has drastically reduced its dependence already?

Anyway, you're right that decreasing oil demand will lessen dependency on foreign oil. You're wrong that our current approach "isn't feasible". Our oil imports from Saudi and worldwide are falling. See: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_epc0_im0...

Re:Texas Is About to Create OPEC’s Worst Nightmare by toomuchtodo on Wednesday November 21, 2018 @04:33PM (#18506279)
> Did your desire to use the word fungible outweigh the fact that the US has drastically reduced its dependence already?

No, facts are facts. Your own citation shows the US is still importing 3 million/barrels a day from OPEC (~33% of US daily consumption), and has held somewhat constant at that level since 2013. The price of oil would rise if those 3 million/barrels a day weren't on the world market, or if the US was required to source those barrels elsewhere.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

Not a lot of electrical generation sources in the US run by authoritarian governments compared to oil producers. If it's not Saudi Arabia, it'll be another government attempting to control energy supplies. Can't control a country's electrical generation so easily, and therefore it makes the most sense to incentivize the rapid electrification of transportation.