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Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by raesene9 on Saturday November 17, 2018 @06:45AM (#18475116)
it's a real shame that the concept of raising certain taxes in the UK (specifically income tax and corporation tax) has become an anathema to british politicians.

We still need to get the money from somewhere, so instead of fairly increasing progressive taxes, we get lots of little (often unfair) hidden tax rises and huge cuts in public spending.

The weird part is, the british public go along with this. The Conservatives are actively talking about more corporation tax cuts at a time where we still have a large defecit and huge problems with underspending in the public sector.

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by chrisseaton on Saturday November 17, 2018 @06:59AM (#18475168)
> The weird part is, the British public go along with this.

I don't think they're 'going along with it' - you're making it sound like they don't know what they want.

UK society doesn't have much of an anti-government movement like in the US, but low taxation and leaner governance is a pretty common, mainstream preference here. I think if you speak to a diverse group of voters in the UK you will find a lot of support for austerity and low taxation.

It's not even a Conservative thing! See my sibling comment for an example.

The NHS is a strong outlier in people's preference for extra funding. Child education is another. But for social security? I think the appetite in the UK is less than you think it is.

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by raesene9 on Saturday November 17, 2018 @07:11AM (#18475221)
Well I'd argue they don't know what they want really, in that they want two divergent things, "better public services" and "low taxation"

Personally I didn't mention Social security, I know the attitude to people claiming benefits from those not on them in the UK

I was thinking of the problems in local gov. spending where the central grant has radically decreased, the problems in police spending with far fewer front line officers, the problem in the courts system which is having major impacts there.

The bit about "going along with it" was primarily about the corporation tax cuts.

Those cut revenue and don't directly help citizens (unless you believe in trickle down economics!). A more rational approach would be to want lower personal taxes surely?

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by chrisseaton on Saturday November 17, 2018 @07:20AM (#18475249)
> in that they want two divergent things, "better public services" and "low taxation"

They think this can be achieved be being more efficient (all the newspaper articles about NHS wastage and middle managers), and spending less money on things they don't want (overseas aid is a common example.) So the two things aren't necessarily at odds.

> unless you believe in trickle down economics!

I think a lot of people do.

> A more rational approach would be to want lower personal taxes surely?

I think a lot of British people see a large successful business as a virtuous success story, and so want them 'punished' less with less taxes.

(I'm not saying any of this is my opinion, but it's definitely what a lot of people here think.)

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by raesene9 on Saturday November 17, 2018 @07:32AM (#18475294)
I'm not sure about the successful business piece. Look at the protests over tax dodging by companies.

I'd say that kind of attitude is common in the US, but less so in the UK.

Albeit I'm seeing things from a Scottish rather than English perspective, but I've not seen an appetite for lower company taxes..

My guess for continued support of this kind of policy is that people think other things are more important (e.g. brexit) + tribalism in voting habits (we've always voted that way round here) + of course the terminally broken FPTP voting system.

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by repolfx on Saturday November 17, 2018 @01:24PM (#18476673)
Company taxes are being lowered because last time that was done, tax take went up not down. That is lower corporation tax = more tax revenue and it's revenue that matters.
Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by raesene9 on Saturday November 17, 2018 @05:58PM (#18477839)
for the UK? you got a citation for lower rates == increased revenue?

the only close example I can think of in the UK is the higher rate income tax band bit and that turned out to be clever accountants banking on the fact that a change in gov. would lower the rate so they time shifted income into the period where it was lower...

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by yardstick on Saturday November 17, 2018 @06:59AM (#18475169)
My local (Labour, not that it really matters) council has taken pride in not raising council tax for the last 5+ years. Yet inflation has pushed up wages and expenses and somehow they expect to maintain the same quality of local government. Impossible!
Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by matthewmacleod on Saturday November 17, 2018 @07:17AM (#18475245)
That's a valid objection, though I think council tax is a particularly tricky issue to deal with in the UK – it's a highly regressive tax, but reform is difficult to achieve while the people who would be most affected by a proper reform would be Conservative voters.
Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by raesene9 on Saturday November 17, 2018 @07:12AM (#18475225)
plus of course the ongoing reductions in central funding for local authorities https://www.local.gov.uk/about/news/council-funding-be-furth...
Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by tonyedgecombe on Saturday November 17, 2018 @08:47AM (#18475496)
Personally I'd like to see corporation tax go, it gives an unfair advantage to large companies who can shift their profits to low tax economies.

We would be better off moving that tax back to dividends, capital gains and property which are much harder to avoid.

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by EliRivers on Saturday November 17, 2018 @07:50AM (#18475338)
I'm so sick of receiving tax cuts I don't need and will literally never notice, alongside cuts to public services that some people really really need being cut, that the Tory party will never win my vote.

Well, I say never; never is a long time, but as long as they keep trying to win my favour by cutting my taxes, they can get bent. I'm not some kind of Pavlovian econo-rational robot, and I object to them treating me as one. These days I tend to vote for the most crazy left-wing party on the ballot, but if there isn't one (there's usually one in local elections, isn't one in nationals), not bother.

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by matthewmacleod on Saturday November 17, 2018 @08:15AM (#18475396)
Heh, I thought I was maybe the only one.

I will pay hundreds of pounds less tax in the next tax year. It seems like an absolutely pointless tax cut. It will make essentially no difference to my quality of life. In the meantime, local services that I use are deteriorating – let alone the ones that people in much more need than I use – and the police force and health service are continuing to head towards an absolute meltdown. There are thousands of people in my local council area relying on charity-run food banks. It's a baffling state of affairs.

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by raesene9 on Saturday November 17, 2018 @11:43AM (#18476197)
Another +1 for me on that. I'd happily forgoe the tax cut I'm getting this year for better public services.

This myth that gets rolled out that any increase in tax will cause higher rate payers to flee the country in droves is really harmful, I'm happy to pay tax if it improves the services provided by the country.

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by repolfx on Saturday November 17, 2018 @01:26PM (#18476684)
Why don't you just donate the extra money you don't need to charity instead? There's no obligation to fund all social activities through tax.

For instance if you don't need a few hundred pounds per year, why not buy a friend private health insurance.

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by DanBC on Saturday November 17, 2018 @02:11PM (#18476882)
Private health in the UK can only exist off the back of the NHS.

The doctors are mostly trained in the NHS system. When a surgery happens there's a reasonable chance that it's in the private floor of an NHS hospital, using a private doctor but the rest of the team is NHS. You'll get a private room. But if anything goes wrong, or if you need more after care, you'll be back in the NHS system.

In the UK private health care is at best queue-jumping, but at worst it's poor quality care from doctors who couldn't keep a job in the NHS.

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by raesene9 on Saturday November 17, 2018 @06:00PM (#18477845)
That's a really inefficient way to fund health care. A well run centralized system has massively better buying power and no requirement to provide ever increasing profit margins to shareholders.

I'd prefer my money went to a central budget and was used effectively at a country level :)

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by EliRivers on Sunday November 18, 2018 @02:25PM (#18482034)
Can I also have everyone else in the same boat as me also donate the money they don't need? My few hundred pounds is not going to go far. I don't want them to take just my few hundred pounds. I want them to take in hundreds of millions of extra pounds.

I don't want charities having to rescue people from defunded services that were defunded to give money to people who will never notice it; I want the government to come up with better policies than "let's just cut some more taxes for people who don't need it and won't even notice".

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by repolfx on Sunday November 25, 2018 @01:54PM (#18528231)
You may feel you don't need tax cuts or won't notice, but don't speak for everyone. You're really just taking the standard position of "I wish the government would take other people's money but I'll phrase it in an odd way, so I can feel virtuous".

The Inland Revenue does accept overpayments. You could give yourself a tax rise and be the change you wish to see in the world. If you don't then it seems like you're not being entirely straight-laced.

Re:UK austerity has inflicted 'great misery' on citizens, UN... by beaconstudios on Saturday November 17, 2018 @07:17AM (#18475244)
it's not so much Conservatism as Britain having a strongly individualist, liberal (as in liberty) political history.