News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by Kye on Sunday November 11, 2018 @07:12PM (#18429610)
>> "As a tradinally Left person myself, I'm deeply troubled by the disourse in the U.S., where the Left and the extreme Right use the same phraseology and attitude, while the former feeling vindicated and justified. And throwing away due process in the interest of the Greater Good?"

I mean, yeah, but Quillette is still a rag. It exists to exhaust people with the time, energy, and knowledge to debunk it so people without that will be duped by its arguments that only seem reasonable on the surface and one or two layers below, right above the trash.

Quillette is like a knowledge slot machine to people who want to be well-informed but don't have the resources to do it without leaning on others who do. It lures you in with surface plausibility.

Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by mancerayder on Sunday November 11, 2018 @07:14PM (#18429619)
We read rags all day: Politico, Vox, even the Guardian and the NYT do plenty of ragging. It's not all flak-jacket reporting with helicopters buzzing overhead and sandstorms; there's plenty of polemics to go around.

The article I linked above is very rational and supported with references.

Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by Kye on Sunday November 11, 2018 @07:36PM (#18429724)
I'm sure it is, but I don't see why Quillete needs to be given attention. It's bad media. It feeds on people without enough patience to resist skilled manipulation. It leans on confirmation bias and hammers it in.

Someone elsewhere likened it to Galileo. Quillette is more like the Church. It says "the Earth is flat!" How many times do you walk someone through the math of proving the Earth is roundish before you realize it's futile? Unchecked confirmation bias always wins. The best treatment is to starve it of air.

It doesn't need profiles in mostly credible outlets. It needs a faulty backup and restoration plan and a power surge.

Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by klagermkii on Sunday November 11, 2018 @08:18PM (#18429907)
> Someone elsewhere likened it to Galileo. Quillette is more like the Church. It says "the Earth is flat!" How many times do you walk someone through the math of proving the Earth is roundish before you realize it's futile? Unchecked confirmation bias always wins. The best treatment is to starve it of air.

I don't think this is a healthy view for the long term success of a culture built around social justice (the combination of how-often-do-I-have-to-repeat-this with it's-not-my-job-to-educate-you). It's been less than two decades since swinging popular opinion over onto the side of broader rights and already the people who should be the stanchest advocates seem tired of trying to persuade people.

This is a fundamental part of human culture, you have to keep explaining the so-called basics again and again, rather than being exasperated whenever people want it explained for the umpteenth time. Learn from religions, and see how even when Christianity was the absolute dominant Western culture, that they were happy to explain it again and again to anyone that wanted to listen. That is what you need to do if you want to keep your gains and keep everyone on the same page.

Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by Kye on Sunday November 11, 2018 @08:55PM (#18430035)
Inoreader's stats say it posts 14 articles a week to 306 subscribers, just on Inoreader. Their Twitter has close to 100k followers.

I might persuade one person in the time they convince or reinforce 10 beliefs in 1000 people. What hope does good information have against that kind of persuasion engine? There's a reason religion's decline started with the rise of mass media. It had competition.

Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by natalyarostova on Sunday November 11, 2018 @10:06PM (#18430306)
Plenty of bright and well-educated people, myself included, like Quillete. One possibility is that we are all suffering from the same intellectual malady, which results in our general success across a wide range of fields, but a critical failure where we cannot distinguish good from bad media.

Another alternative is there is some more value in Quillete than you have evaluated.

Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by Kye on Sunday November 11, 2018 @10:40PM (#18430428)
That's always possible. Maybe they were just having a run of weak reasoning when I looked at it the last few times.
Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by natalyarostova on Sunday November 11, 2018 @10:45PM (#18430452)
Yeah, I wouldn't blanket defend everything written there (I haven't even read it all). But some are great.
Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by markdog12 on Sunday November 11, 2018 @07:43PM (#18429760)
> It doesn't need profiles in mostly credible outlets. It needs a faulty backup and restoration plan and a power surge.

Who sounds like the church?

Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by mancerayder on Sunday November 11, 2018 @07:40PM (#18429745)
I mean, yeah, but Quillette is still a rag. It exists to exhaust people with the time, energy, and knowledge to debunk it so people without that will be duped by its arguments that only seem reasonable on the surface and one or two layers below, right above the trash.

Quillette is like a knowledge slot machine to people who want to be well-informed but don't have the resources to do it without leaning on others who do. It lures you in with surface plausibility.

I think you edited after my response below, so:

If your words are true, the entire thing is discredited. It feels hand-wavy, so do you have any examples or references? The article I linked above has supported references and links, and it's quite long. You're saying it's a complete fraud?

Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by mancerayder on Sunday November 11, 2018 @07:54PM (#18429806)
You've provided no evidence for your claims at all, only one post-comment-edit and a repetition of your ad-hominems against the publication. It's bad because it's bad, it's a fraud because it's a fraud, and when asked to clarify what's fraudulent about it, we're told there are "gradients."
Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by Kye on Sunday November 11, 2018 @07:57PM (#18429820)
It's the same tired old conservative talking points with the edges filed down. It's futile. People believe what they want to believe. When they're ready to question it, they can see all that's been written over the last couple decades about conservative media. I am not re-treading it for the nth time just because someone repackaged the same stuff for a new generation.

I've been down this road. It goes nowhere at best, and turns into demon threads (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/BZtAavpsy9WtMYgEL/demon-thre...) in the average case.

Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by DanBC on Monday November 19, 2018 @02:18PM (#18488891)
This article by a quillete editor but written for WSJ is horseshit. https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-visit-to-islamic-england-1535...

Note the correction:

> An earlier version mistakenly identified the public context of a sign that declared “Alcohol-restricted zone.” Such signs refer to a prohibition on public drinking and appear in many English neighborhoods, irrespective of Muslim population.

That's what you get when islamophobic idiots write articles about a country they don't understand. These signs really are common across England. There's one outside my house. (Muslim population in my street = 0, and in this part of town = < 2%). But the article is full of this kind of horseshit: "no one makes eye contact" - yep, this happens, but it happens between everyone regardless of religion: we don't talk to each other in the south. About the only thing that's true is that some mosques distribute unpleasant material. I'd ban it, but then I'd also ban this shitty article. Mr Ngo is a hypocrite for calling out these pamphlets while writing material as objectionable himself.

Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by yesenadam on Sunday November 11, 2018 @10:55PM (#18430487)
people who want to be well-informed but don't have the resources to do it without leaning on others who do

Uh, isn't that absolutely everyone?

All your comments on this page are very ugly, and remind me of the SJWs in the movie The Red Pill - so certain they're right that they have no need to think about, engage with, consider the matter/group/publication in question. They are good, the other is bad, by definition.

I hadn't heard of Lehmann or Quillette. Reading most of the comments on this page, I expected some ranting far-right lunatic website. But a couple of comments made me think it might be worth checking out.. And what a surprise. It seems full of interesting articles. Has supportive blurbs from quite a lot of writers I like. I was expecting at best an intelligent site from the right[0]. It's actually nothing like that, just seems full of good articles from good writers. Why the hate and fear on this page, I have no idea. So I bookmarked quillette.com and will be reading their stuff. Thanks HN.

[0] I like to sometimes read "conservative" stuff, to counterbalance my natural far-left inclinations. e.g. I love the books of Roger Kimball and David Stove, and have learnt a lot from them. Plus they're excellent writers, and can be very funny. (Although I read one of Kimball's purely political pieces online once, OMG it was embarrassingly bad. But in matters of general art/culture/philosophy I don't often disagree with him.)

Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by Kye on Sunday November 11, 2018 @11:08PM (#18430522)
I wouldn't describe any of my 5 comments on this page as ugly, but I guess interpretation is the core of this whole conflict.

1 is a simple statistical note. 1 is admitting I might be wrong.

1 is a bit harsh. 1 is a bit mean. I shouldn't have called it a rag. They at least seem pro-a lot of things I care about and don't seem malicious.

1 is a tame assessment based on several articles I read that became popular here on HN.

I plan to give it another look based on /u/natalyarostova's comment. Maybe you should do the same with the comments you find so ugly.

[dead]
Re:A Profile of Claire Lehmann of Quillette by Kye on Sunday November 11, 2018 @11:27PM (#18430583)
There's a greentext somewhere in here cruising for a shadowban. I know where the lines are. That's why I stepped back and re-evaluated. I was mean and harsh, like I said. I wouldn't say any of it is ugly.

Maybe I'm just comparing to when I was what I'd call ugly in the past...

Maybe you're right! I'll keep this in mind for the future.