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Re:Improving Ourselves to Death by teekert on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @02:09AM (#18389004)
I guess the question is: When will you be truly happy? Will you be happy when you have helped humanity forward in any significant way? Or, will you be happy when you have good relations with the people around you and a generally fun existence?

Few people actually help humanity forward in any significant way and thus you are likely setting yourself up for disappointment. I'd even argue that setting more realistic goals makes you more happy and this simple fact increases your odds of helping humanity significantly forward. Think about it, when is your energy level highest? When do you wake up with that sense of wonder and awe and motivation? What are you telling yourself every day, is it truly constructive or just demotivating?

Re:Improving Ourselves to Death by enraged_camel on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @02:41AM (#18389103)
>>When will you be truly happy? Will you be happy when you have helped humanity forward in any significant way? Or, will you be happy when you have good relations with the people around you and a generally fun existence?

I will be happy when I can choose to work on what I want to work on, rather than what society tells me I need to work on in order to be able to continue feeding and sheltering myself.

In a sense, financial independence is what I seek, because only financial independence will allow me to put 100% of my energy into improving my community via endeavors that otherwise would not pay a dime.

Re:Improving Ourselves to Death by coldtea on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @03:20AM (#18389256)
And what if you can't manage to get financial independence, or ever be able to put "100% of my energy into improving my community via endeavors that otherwise would not pay a dime" ever, like 95%+ of humanity.

What then?

You'd spend all your life miserable because of it?

You won't divert the "self-improvement schemes/self-pity" effort towards whatever percentage you are left with for improving your community (even if it's like 20%)?

Re:Improving Ourselves to Death by TeMPOraL on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @03:45AM (#18389358)
> You'd spend all your life miserable because of it?

Isn't this whole thing really about managing your own emotions? I'm reminded of Carnegie's "How to Stop Worrying and Start Living", and the underlying theme that whatever you want to do, worrying more than necessary to inform your actions is definitely not helping your chances of success.

Re:Improving Ourselves to Death by TeMPOraL on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @03:42AM (#18389338)
> Few people actually help humanity forward in any significant way and thus you are likely setting yourself up for disappointment.

Few people do, but also few people even try. Do we have any estimate of the ratio between those two groups?

I'm strongly with 'jniedrauer here. I feel the same dissatisfaction. There are well-known open problems the world has at all levels, large and small. I would like to spend time working on those in a meaningful manner. I hate the standard life advice of "work your job, marry, have kids, enjoy yourself". It does not resonate with me, and never did.

> I'd even argue that setting more realistic goals makes you more happy and this simple fact increases your odds of helping humanity significantly forward.

That's a fair point, and I find even Tomminn's words about "not being a special person" right. Something I've been coming to grips with. Being the person that makes a direct, huge and positive impact on the world is mostly a matter of luck. But setting smaller goals should still allow to contribute with effort instead of just luck, and maybe even "create" some of that luck.

> Think about it, when is your energy level highest? When do you wake up with that sense of wonder and awe and motivation?

Not OP, but for myself - it's when I dream of Star Trek-level world. A world of honest & good-faith cooperation, of mastery of the environment through science and technology, a world that expanded to space. Correspondingly, my energy levels are the lowest whenever I have to grind out code for another CRUD app that exists mostly in a large-scale gambling that is startup industry, and that does not address any problem standing between us and the dream utopia.

> I guess the question is: When will you be truly happy? Will you be happy when you have helped humanity forward in any significant way? Or, will you be happy when you have good relations with the people around you and a generally fun existence?

That's a good question, but I think that it's not either-or. Seeing that you helped make a world even a tiny bit better is a long-term satisfaction thing. "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" is fun in the moment, and definitely makes going through life much more pleasant. But - at least for me - it also seems incredibly empty.

Re:Improving Ourselves to Death by jonnybgood on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @04:26AM (#18389500)
> Seeing that you helped make a world even a tiny bit better is a long-term satisfaction thing. "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" is fun in the moment, and definitely makes going through life much more pleasant. But - at least for me - it also seems incredibly empty.

Isn't the goal of making the world a tiny bit better about having more of the world be able to "eat, drink, and be merry"?

Re:Improving Ourselves to Death by TeMPOraL on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @05:27AM (#18389788)
It definitely is!

When I say "it feels empty", I say that about my own feelings, and in the context of current world state. But I recognize that the ultimate goal is for more and more people to be able to just enjoy life.

Re:Improving Ourselves to Death by wetpaws on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @03:05AM (#18389206)
This assumes that the happiness is the goal of existence. While true for some people, it does not mean that is a universal truth for everybody.
Re:Improving Ourselves to Death by coldtea on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @03:18AM (#18389249)
It does, since happiness is by definition the goal. What makes you happy can change (it could even be getting executed if it helps a great cause), but nobody is content with being miserable.
Re:Improving Ourselves to Death by jniedrauer on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @12:15PM (#18392883)
You're speaking for yourself.

Given a hypothetical button which could perfectly simulate the chemical conditions of self-actualization, do you think everyone would be content to use it every day and do nothing else for the rest of their lives?

Re:Improving Ourselves to Death by coldtea on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @12:55PM (#18393276)
>You're speaking for yourself

No, I was making a general statement that is tautological, and thus applies irrespective of any person.

>Given a hypothetical button which could perfectly simulate the chemical conditions of self-actualization, do you think everyone would be content to use it every day and do nothing else for the rest of their lives?

That would just mean that self-actualization for them involves struggle, and they don't want it in ready made form. But they still want their self-actualization (just not a pre-packaged medically induced one).

I already mentioned that for some self-actualization can even include being executed for a great cause -- you think those types would be the ones to content with medically-induced feelings of self-actualization?