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Re:SF fines two landords $2.25M for illegal Airbnb rentals by toomuchtodo on Monday November 05, 2018 @08:14PM (#18387533)
It seems...foolish to not bend over backwards for those who control your destiny through democratic actions. Property owners have the most to lose, and therefore the most incentive to keep their neighborhood as-is. I find it hard to fault them for their actions (especially when you're investing seven figures into your home's purchase).

The core problem is that SF property owners value their homes, communities, and property values over the inclusion of additional residents, and that won't change without stripping this constituency of their property and voting rights (which is of course untenable in a functioning democracy).

Re:SF fines two landords $2.25M for illegal Airbnb rentals by munk-a on Monday November 05, 2018 @08:21PM (#18387565)
SF really is in a situation where a regional development council needs to come in and clear out a lot of the low-density housing, but since that's unlikely to happen this story makes me quite happy.
Re:SF fines two landords $2.25M for illegal Airbnb rentals by dvtrn on Monday November 05, 2018 @08:28PM (#18387601)
Pardon my snark, but this sounds like eminent domain wearing a velvet glove.
Re:SF fines two landords $2.25M for illegal Airbnb rentals by lsc on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @02:29AM (#18389075)
I don't think that's the plan op is talking about... the plan is if you change the housing rules so that the approval to build your apartment is state level rather than local level, then assuming it makes financial sense, developers can come in and buy single family homes on the open market and build something high density in their place.

There's a bill like this every few years, and it always gets shot down. The latest is SB827, which was shot down, too.

https://slate.com/business/2018/01/california-bill-sb827-res...

In general, the problem isn't with people being unwilling to sell to developers; the problem is that even after the developers get the property, they are prevented from developing it in a high density manner.

Re:SF fines two landords $2.25M for illegal Airbnb rentals by haloux on Monday November 05, 2018 @08:40PM (#18387657)
Dude that’s eminent domain _prima facie_.
Re:SF fines two landords $2.25M for illegal Airbnb rentals by dvtrn on Monday November 05, 2018 @08:42PM (#18387666)
Look I had to be sure, I've never seen anyone actually suggest eminent domain so casually before. The only times I've seen it have been in grainy, fuzzy news reports from the 80's.
Re:SF fines two landords $2.25M for illegal Airbnb rentals by CPLX on Monday November 05, 2018 @09:03PM (#18387757)
You’re kidding right?

Eminent domain is used daily in the US and around the world. It would literally be impossible to build and maintain a transportation network without it.

Re:SF fines two landords $2.25M for illegal Airbnb rentals by dvtrn on Monday November 05, 2018 @09:26PM (#18387847)
Okay but we're talking about razing houses and replacing it not with infrastructure and transportation networks but with more housing in a state with already a quarter of the nation's homeless population.

I have so many questions about what happens in that regional development council hypothetical with astronomically high housing prices and homelessness:

- Do you play benevolent city planner and let current residents in these low density zones stay, redevelop around them? This is already happening without much help needed from the city, hastening that seems to be a good way to add to the homeless population resulting from displaced families fleeing the inevitable raise in property value and therefore taxes, no?

- Do you play well meaning but forward marching city planner who has to watch families move out of their city acquired land and homes, sure probably with a check in hand and a pat on the back hoping they make it-when realistically the market probably, very likely (A) don't have room for them or (B) probably out of their financial range to even relocate to nearby neighborhoods?

I just don't see a path forward here for SF using eminent domain that doesn't come with some very painful outcomes that probably exacerbate the very problem it would intend to solve. An unforced error.

Perhaps I'm overthinking the conceit here, but it's an experience I've lived through, so maybe that explains why my eyebrow immediately shot up.

Re:SF fines two landords $2.25M for illegal Airbnb rentals by CPLX on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @06:05AM (#18389951)
> Okay but we're talking about razing houses and replacing it not with infrastructure and transportation networks but with more housing

Who’s talking about that?

All you have to do, literally, is just stop actively preventing people from building apartment buildings. The market will have no trouble taking care of the rest.

Re:SF fines two landords $2.25M for illegal Airbnb rentals by l4yao on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @02:19AM (#18389045)
I don't understand the outcomes of the second scenario. Wouldn't adding housing stock A) make more room for them and B) as a result, lower the cost to stay within the neighborhood

Won't their checks be for fair market value of their expropriate property? So by definition, they should be able to relocate within the neighborhood?

Re:SF fines two landords $2.25M for illegal Airbnb rentals by haloux on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @06:47PM (#18395935)
>Won't their checks be for fair market value of their expropriate property?

As someone who's been on the short end of eminent domain for a freeway offramp in north LA, nope. The city tends to hire their own appraisers with their own way of looking at things. Considering that most eminent domain cases run through single family housing without existing homebuilder contracts with the city (at this point, we're talking homes before 1980), there are a litany of ways in which a city appraiser can devalue the house. Yes, of course you can hire an appraiser go to bat for you.

The short and sweet of it is that the city can use things like "you never applied for a permit to build this addition" or "your re-roofing was never replaced with high wind resistant (no joke) tar." At this point, we're talking multiple visits from an appraiser (assuming you can find one willing to deal with city bureaucracy), and lawyer fees to handle the entire case.

That doesn't even begin to address the emotional quagmire of the fact that they knocked on _your_ door. You'll probably need to need to talk to a counselor for that one.