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Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by zapzupnz on Sunday November 04, 2018 @07:36PM (#18378928)
Being fair, the advertisements can be switched off (and Windows Setup offers this during the Out of Box Experience when the computer is first used or a major update occurs), and those icons can be removed fairly simply. Also, those third party apps aren't preinstalled; they're just shortcuts to the Microsoft Store to download them.

I see a lot of people spending more energy ranting about this, a problem that doesn't necessarily exist in the way that people might think, than doing a quick investigation to find that the apps aren't there in the first place.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by paranoidrobot on Sunday November 04, 2018 @09:06PM (#18379321)
> Being fair, the advertisements can be switched off

Sorry, but Citation required.

I've installed more than my fair share of Windows 10 Home and Pro versions, had both shipped on new devices and nowhere was I offered any options which controlled installing this shit.

> a problem that doesn't necessarily exist in the way that people might think

Even if it was a shortcut to the Windows Store, but it still there eating up space on the start screen... But even still it doesn't help.

I have to go uninstall it (because yes, it's actually installed goddamn Candy Crush and other shit for me)

I'll open up my laptop and find it's decided that it'll install Windows Update right now and fuck whatever I wanted to do with the machine.

Worse, once it's completed it's screwing with my machine, it's gone and re-installed shit, and now bugs me (again) about "Hey, instead of using Chrome, how about you use Edge!" and has reset a bunch of other system options to be the way MS wants them.

I'm hardly alone in this experience - I saw at least half a dozen presenters at NDC Oslo last year bitching about this happening to them the morning of/right before presentations, and I've had it happen to me during meetings/conference calls/etc - where it's fucked off with work that I'm in the middle of.

Windows 10 is why I'm on a full-on effort to move my primary machines over to Linux after decades of Windows use.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by philliphaydon on Sunday November 04, 2018 @11:36PM (#18379893)
It’s in the advanced options of the install process..............
Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by paranoidrobot on Monday November 05, 2018 @01:14AM (#18380247)
Ok, which specific advanced option, and where? Are certain key combinations required? Is it only settable by putting options in a config file?

Please be specific, and/or link to any relevant documentation.

'cause I hit Advanced any time there was an option, and switched every privacy setting/tracking option off. Yet it still installs ads for Office, various other Bing shit, Installs Candy Crush, etc.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by zapzupnz on Monday November 05, 2018 @03:20AM (#18380720)
During the OOBE, one of the options is 'Tailored Experience'. The blurb under it notes that disabling it will disable ads and recommendations.
Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by satysin on Monday November 05, 2018 @05:16AM (#18381175)
I just tried this on a the latest version of Windows 10 and with everything disabled during the OOBE I still get Candy Crush, Twitter, Minecraft, Get Office, etc. in the start menu.

How do I avoid those using settings in the OOBE?

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by zapzupnz on Monday November 05, 2018 @12:30PM (#18384123)
Those I don't think you can get rid of because they're shortcut files that happen to show up in the Start Menu by default. Easily enough gotten rid of, though.
Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by naikrovek on Monday November 05, 2018 @03:48AM (#18380822)
Update your complaints to match the updated situation, please.

Candy crush does get installed on fresh Win10 installs, and the person responsible for that deal was drummed out of Microsoft, I believe, and once that agreement expires, that'll stop. In the meantime it takes literally 5 seconds to right-click the icon and choose "uninstall" then click the confirmation, and it wont ever come back.

Removed applications do not get reinstalled on a patch or OS upgrade.

Turning off advertisements turns off advertisements, and it will never switch back on by itself.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by paranoidrobot on Monday November 05, 2018 @07:53AM (#18381889)
> Update your complaints to match the updated situation, please.

I don't understand what you mean by updated situation? Have things changed in the last month or two? From a commenter above, that's apparently not the case.

> once that agreement expires, that'll stop

Microsoft is large enough and profitable enough that if they actually cared, they'd pay out the agreement's terms and stop it. They could actually use it as a "We're sorry, we've stopped doing this" marketing to the folks who're pissed off about it.

> Removed applications do not get reinstalled on a patch or OS upgrade.

This isn't true, I've uninstalled various Xbox, Bing, Skype, "Get Office" and other stuff a few times now on the one machine.

> it takes literally 5 seconds to right-click the icon and choose "uninstall" then click the confirmation

And to repeat that again for eeevery damn ad/preload application. It takes a damn sight longer than 5 seconds to remove the ones you can actually remove. But there's still other preloaded apps like OneDrive that I can't remove or even hide.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by naikrovek on Tuesday November 06, 2018 @11:51AM (#18392648)
> I don't understand what you mean by updated situation? Have things changed in the last month or two? From a commenter above, that's apparently not the case.

Things have changed since Windows 10 was released, yes. The last 3-4 releases have honored your uninstallations; if you remove candy crush, upgrades to newer versions of Windows 10 will not replace it, UNLESS the image used to upgrade marks it for installation. The stock Windows 10 media from Microsoft does not, so stock media from Microsoft will not reinstall anything you uninstalled before you began the upgrade.

Other commenters agree with me, as well. Something situational to you is putting them back, I suspect.

>> it takes literally 5 seconds to right-click the icon and choose "uninstall" then click the confirmation

> And to repeat that again for eeevery damn ad/preload application. It takes a damn sight longer than 5 seconds to remove the ones you can actually remove. But there's still other preloaded apps like OneDrive that I can't remove or even hide.

It only takes me 5 seconds, but maybe my computer performs better than yours. If you're not on an SSD I can see why you say it takes longer than 5 seconds, certainly. You only need to uninstall the one time before upgrading to one of the last 3-4 releases of Windows. I forget exactly which one implemented the change. If you are using Windows 10 versions prescribed to you by your IT department, then all bets are off, because a lot of things tend to get customized in those scenarios and I can't know about those customizations and/or limitations.

If you use a Microsoft account, your settings for ads and other personalization preferences will persist across all devices you use that account on. You don't even need to associate your login details with your MSA, simply logging into that MSA on the account in question is enough to sync up those things.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by mattnewton on Monday November 05, 2018 @12:35AM (#18380098)
Maybe I did it wrong, but I intended to switch it off and I still get ads after updates on my gaming machine.
Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by pasabagi on Sunday November 04, 2018 @07:53PM (#18378999)
I think it's a bit like having a big smudge of snot on your screen. Sure, you can clean it off. Certainly, it's trivial. Equally, it devalues the product, far more than any value it could bring Microsoft. When I buy a new laptop, I don't want to spend 3 hours reading articles about how to get rid of adverts for mobile phone games, and switching off other blatantly user-hostile features.

It's just vaguely schizophrenic. You have all this genuinely cool, nicely done engineering, then the initial impression is ruined by a load of slapped-on garbage. It's like selling a BMW with a bunch of McDonnalds special-offer vouchers stuck to the steering wheel.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by zapzupnz on Monday November 05, 2018 @03:17AM (#18380705)
> I think it's a bit like having a big smudge of snot on your screen

Or, to take the laptop analogy, like having unnecessarily-difficult-to-remove stickers showing off the processor, graphics, and chipset inside… we're all oddly desensitised to devalued products and apply different standards depending on what strikes us as more outrageous.

> I don't want to spend 3 hours reading articles about how to get rid of adverts

Sure, so just be sure to disable ads during the OOBE session when you first turn the computer on. It's a checkbox or switch or whatever Windows has decided to use now.

Of course, I do take the point. Especially when it comes to regular people, whose apprehension at seeing the words 'advanced' and 'setup' in the same place make the prospect of choosing anything other than the Express Setup out of the question. I'm just saying it's not the drama that some people make it out to be, not for the technically minded I assume this site's audience to be.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by pasabagi on Monday November 05, 2018 @10:49AM (#18383215)
There are plenty of people who are very technically minded that have absolutely zero interest in configuring their computer.

I'm not outraged by it. I just feel bad for the talented people at microsoft who sweat over the OS, only to have somebody glue-gun a bunch of trash to the front at the last minute.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by satysin on Sunday November 04, 2018 @07:45PM (#18378962)
I have never seen an option in the OOBE to disable the automatic installation of Twitter, Candy Crush, Trivago, Fallout Shelter, Kindle and other such crap. What setting are you referring to?

You are correct in that they are stubs however the moment Windows finds internet access it begins downloading them. This is obviously their preferred solution to ensure the user gets the latest and greatest version of the appvert.

Some can be removed easily and some not. I know Microsoft are working on making it easier to remove more of their own apps which they should have done in the first place IMHO.

Yes I am spending energy ranting about this because it is a problem to me. I shouldn't have to spend any time on removing such crap from an OS that I paid around £200 for (Pro license remember not some free upgrade from Windows 7 back in 2015) that is baked into the £3000+ price of my Surface Book 2.

It isn't that it is too difficult just that it shouldn't be required. It would be like buying a Mercedes and having to remove advertising stickers from the back Windows.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by exikyut on Sunday November 04, 2018 @08:30PM (#18379141)
I'm curious what your opinions of Windows Loader/picoKMS et al are.

On the one hand, it would get an Enterprise copy running.

On the other hand... this is old (may 2017) and the URL shortner hiding the "followup article" is down, but there's this: https://twitter.com/m8urnett/status/866353982217699328 / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14389441

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by davidy123 on Sunday November 04, 2018 @07:38PM (#18378937)
People shouldn't have to spend any time on this, at all. Very few people want ads for games or anything else than their operating system focus in their start menu. There should be at most a subtle opt-in option.
Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by hackinthebochs on Sunday November 04, 2018 @08:40PM (#18379183)
>Very few people want ads for games or anything else than their operating system focus in their start menu.

Why do you think the average person wouldn't want these popular apps a click away?

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by nitrogen on Monday November 05, 2018 @01:13AM (#18380243)
Is there some way I can opt out of "average person" justifications for crappy experiences? If I'm paying a niche price for a niche product I should expect more than "average".
Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by komali2 on Monday November 05, 2018 @01:09AM (#18380228)
I actually have yet to meet a person that plays Candy crush windows, and not for lack of hanging around non technical people.
Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by dragonsky67 on Sunday November 04, 2018 @11:54PM (#18379955)
Because if I want software to perform a particular action I will go looking at it. I don't want unwanted icons hanging around waiting for me to accidently click on them.
Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by vntok on Monday November 05, 2018 @05:25AM (#18381217)
That's because you are not part of MS Store's target user segment.
Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by manigandham on Sunday November 04, 2018 @10:53PM (#18379753)
Technically yes, but realistically no. Those options are very spread out and many are named in a way that sounds different from advertising (like Cortana Suggestions).

Making a default in a mainstream OS where many people would not know how nor would care to put in the effort is basically making it forced.

I think the main issue in this thread though is that it is just not worth the hit to brand and UX compared to the trivial money it might make.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by EpicEng on Sunday November 04, 2018 @09:25PM (#18379402)
>a problem that doesn't necessarily exist in the way that people might think

It exists in exactly the way it manifests. It's obnoxious. I paid (I _paid_ for this!) for an OS, not to be a node in an ad delivery network.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by zapzupnz on Monday November 05, 2018 @03:18AM (#18380712)
I expect the advertising comes out of the fact that Windows 10 is Microsoft's first proper attempt at a free upgrade. But yes, people have paid for Windows, so in this case it's unacceptable — but I don't think Microsoft figured out (or particularly cares to figure out) what installation is what type.
Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by JustSomeNobody on Sunday November 04, 2018 @07:45PM (#18378959)
> Being fair, the advertisements can be switched off...

There's nothing "fair" about that. I shouldn't have to.

Re:Microsoft Releases a Linux Version of the ProcDump Sysint... by Wistar on Sunday November 04, 2018 @07:49PM (#18378979)
Especially in a Pro version. Groove Music is my complaint as that cannot be removed with the uninstaller.