News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by davnicwil on Sunday November 04, 2018 @04:57PM (#18378272)
I'm suggesting the lid could control the switch, physically, as in when you close it the mic's circuit is broken.
Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by slededit on Sunday November 04, 2018 @05:00PM (#18378282)
Yea that could work. I think this is cheaper for them surprisingly enough. Switches are expensive.
Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by 542458 on Sunday November 04, 2018 @05:08PM (#18378319)
Expensive and failure-prone!
Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by lstodd on Sunday November 04, 2018 @05:26PM (#18378391)
Just put a magnet-actuated switch into the mic itself and a magnet in the corresponding place in the body - problem solved.

Nothing to break, zero attack surface, what's not to like?

Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by kondro on Sunday November 04, 2018 @05:38PM (#18378437)
Except the magnet-actuated switch for each mic.
Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by lstodd on Sunday November 04, 2018 @05:55PM (#18378502)
Those are rated for over hundreds of millions of switching cycles. They would be the last thing that breaks in a laptop.

But if you're so against moving parts, a hall sensor and a transistor would achieve the same result.

Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by dpkonofa on Sunday November 04, 2018 @06:24PM (#18378618)
Or, you know, they could use a chip that they're already putting into the device (like the T2) and not have to use additional components. Same end result without the extra parts.
Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by lstodd on Sunday November 04, 2018 @07:31PM (#18378901)
And an unknown and unknowable attack surface.

At least with the switch if the mic doesn't work you just check for magnets around it and that's it.

Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by xvector on Sunday November 04, 2018 @08:43PM (#18379197)
I'd argue the T2 chip is actually more secure than your method. Magnets can be removed. The T2 chip cannot. Not without rendering the computer unusable and the data irrecoverable.

The chip provides a hardware disconnect for the microphone, just like your idea. Except it's baked into the silicon instead of an additional large part in the body of the computer.

Regardless, if your attack model is "T2 chip is compromised", all bets are off. Worrying about the microphone would be the absolute least of your concerns. All your local and iCloud data can now be decrypted, your 2FA is compromised, so on and so forth.

The T2 chip and Secure Enclave provide the strongest security guarantees in today's computers and mobile devices respectively. I'm not worried about a compromise of the T2 chip, to be honest.

Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by Johnny555 on Sunday November 04, 2018 @11:40PM (#18379907)
I'd argue the T2 chip is actually more secure than your method. Magnets can be removed. The T2 chip cannot. Not without rendering the computer unusable and the data irrecoverable

If someone can physically modify your laptop, you've already been hacked, T2 chip or not.

if your attack model is "T2 chip is compromised"

I think the more realistic attack model is "Apple enables the undocumented 'turn on mic while closed' feature that it was required to add through a national security letter that they can't talk about."

And then that secret hack is either discovered (or stolen) by other government.

Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by AlfeG on Monday November 05, 2018 @01:42AM (#18380349)
Some repair shop or some repair guy could remove magnet for celebrity...
Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by shawnz on Sunday November 04, 2018 @06:23PM (#18378614)
Why would that be more likely to fail than the lid-closed sensor which they are currently using for this application?
Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by lstodd on Sunday November 04, 2018 @07:32PM (#18378911)
The lid sensor likely won't fail. What will likely fail is this T2 chip and/or its firmware. And it will fail in mysterious and unfixable ways.
Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by JumpCrisscross on Sunday November 04, 2018 @05:13PM (#18378339)
> the lid could control the switch

Doing it on a chip sounds more reliable than adding a moving part.

Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by sjwright on Sunday November 04, 2018 @06:32PM (#18378653)
And sounds more scalable too, if they wanted to start applying the same principle to other components like accelerometers, light sensors etc.

The point (it seems) of the T2 chip is that it's isolated from the main system and has far fewer opportunities for exploitation, while leveraging efforts already expended for the iPhone. In my mind the eventual goal of the T1 / T2 etc chip line will be to do everything for a Mac that an iPhone does—storage, webcam control and encoding, audio in/out, fingerprint reader, sensors, battery monitoring, power management etc—and then expose it all to the main system en masse.

Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by Johnny555 on Sunday November 04, 2018 @11:42PM (#18379916)
And sounds more scalable too, if they wanted to start applying the same principle to other components like accelerometers, light sensors etc.

Is it easier the "turn off" signal from the T2 chip to each device to be turned off than it is to route the "turn off" signal from the lid closed switch/sensor to each device. Why does it have to pass through the T2 chip first?

Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by MBCook on Sunday November 04, 2018 @05:32PM (#18378413)
But that would mean you can’t use the built-in microphone when actively using the computer in clamshell mode.
Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by saagarjha on Sunday November 04, 2018 @05:34PM (#18378418)
Is this not true with the current implementation, as well?
Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by MBCook on Sunday November 04, 2018 @06:37PM (#18378680)
I am assuming that if the T2 chip is unlocked (the laptop is in use) then the microphone is still available.

If not, then you’re right it would be exactly the same.

Re:Apple's T2 chip will prevent hackers from eavesdropping o... by anticensor on Monday November 05, 2018 @10:14AM (#18382874)
[sarcasm="true"]bit-bangs the lid servo [/sarcasm]