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Re:Intel CPUs impacted by new PortSmash side-channel vulnera... by kbenson on Friday November 02, 2018 @02:45PM (#18365575)
At what point does the extra complexity and cost of including SMT in the design outweigh the gains is provides if you can only use it in specific situations, and if you don't err on the side of caution is may be a security problem?

If it was clearly outlined as 8 cores that support hyperthreads or 10 cores that don't for around the same price, what do we suppose most people would choose?

Part of the reason for the current status quo might be that hyperthreads are a big differentiator beteen AMD and Intel, and play towards Intel's strength (higher clock speeds at fewer cores).

We have something close to the proposed scenario starting to play out with AMD's offerings that support more cores and no hyperthreading, but it's not a perfect experiment because AMD's cores are also lower clock speed, and there's a lot of brand name loyalty currently.

Re:Intel CPUs impacted by new PortSmash side-channel vulnera... by jcranmer on Friday November 02, 2018 @03:13PM (#18365837)
The point of SMT is that it is quite low overhead. You're not duplicating most of the core, only the physical register file and the TLB units (I think). The execution units and caches--where most of the die of a core goes--remain unreplicated. In terms of area tradeoff, you're not looking at "we'll give you 2 more cores if we disabled SMT." For the Pentium 4 (quickest I could get), adding SMT is a die overhead of 5%. Your realistic trade-off for area constraints is on the terms of SMT, or better out-of-order parallelism scavenging, or more L2 cache.
Re:Intel CPUs impacted by new PortSmash side-channel vulnera... by kbenson on Friday November 02, 2018 @04:47PM (#18366601)
> For the Pentium 4 (quickest I could get), adding SMT is a die overhead of 5%.

Ah, that's what I was looking for. I'm aware that most the resources are shared, but I also assume there have been design choices in other components to make SMT easier or faster, and possibly that increases their die size a small amount, or in general just complicates their design.

The question (which is ultimately unanswerable) is what would we have had Intel not chosen SMT as the path to pursue? If they had instead invested those resource into other areas (e.g. more cores) and never let SMT concerns enter into the discussion, how would those (theoretical) CPUs compare?

That's the CPU comparison I was alluding to in the prior comment, and why I noted AMD vs Intel (even with all it's other differences) may be the closest match up of that idea we'll see.

It wasn't meant as a rebuttal to anything, it was more a "wondering out loud" type of comment spurred by yours, about what could have been had different paths been taken.