News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Show HN: Basilica – word2vec for anything by xapata on Wednesday October 31, 2018 @12:58PM (#18347371)
What's different between an "embedding" and a projection, which I believe is the more standard term for this kind of transformation?
Re:Show HN: Basilica – word2vec for anything by mlucy on Wednesday October 31, 2018 @01:17PM (#18347536)
"Embedding" is the term I've heard used for this most often. It's definitely the term that seems to dominate in the literature. (Just to pick a random paper off my reading list: https://arxiv.org/abs/1709.03856 .)

In my mind "embedding" carries the connotation that you're moving into a smaller space that's easier to work with, and where things which are similar in some way are near each other.

Re:Show HN: Basilica – word2vec for anything by xapata on Wednesday October 31, 2018 @02:32PM (#18348153)
The TensorFlow docs agree with you. This field has such jargon proliferation, it's hard to keep up.

https://developers.google.com/machine-learning/crash-course/...

Re:Show HN: Basilica – word2vec for anything by mlucy on Wednesday October 31, 2018 @02:52PM (#18348305)
Yeah, I agree. The number of new nouns per year is kind of ridiculous.
Re:Show HN: Basilica – word2vec for anything by thanatropism on Wednesday October 31, 2018 @01:12PM (#18347490)
Projection is a type of embedding. But you can't really describe what LTSA, UMAP, etc. do as projection. LTSA "unrolls" data rather than projecting it.
Re:Show HN: Basilica – word2vec for anything by xapata on Wednesday October 31, 2018 @02:36PM (#18348181)
On the contrary, I'd say an "unrolling" is a non-linear projection. Wikipedia suggests that embedding is a type of projection. I hadn't heard the term before today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_dimensionality_reduc...

Re:Show HN: Basilica – word2vec for anything by sjg007 on Wednesday October 31, 2018 @01:37PM (#18347711)
Embedding is the ML term for a non-linear projection.
Re:Show HN: Basilica – word2vec for anything by xapata on Wednesday October 31, 2018 @02:26PM (#18348119)
Amusingly, it seems you and the other reply are contradicting each other, saying both that an embedding is a specific type of projection and that a projection is a specific type of embedding.

When I was learning about SVMs way back when, we said "non-linear projection" instead of "embedding".

Re:Show HN: Basilica – word2vec for anything by sjg007 on Wednesday October 31, 2018 @02:52PM (#18348304)
I mean both are correct given the literature at this point. Maybe the use of embedding captures the notion that you are mapping through a NN which is a variable function of sorts instead of a single or set of linear or orthonormal functions.
Re:Show HN: Basilica – word2vec for anything by FridgeSeal on Wednesday October 31, 2018 @10:59PM (#18351151)
The mathematical term "Embedding" refers to finding a lower dimensional representation of some high(er) dimensional data, whether this is done with single function (maybe hand chosen) or a neural network doesn't matter.
Re:Show HN: Basilica – word2vec for anything by sjg007 on Thursday November 01, 2018 @09:12AM (#18353537)
I don't think that's quite right.. According to wikipedia, embedding is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedding

So Projection sounds closer to what you describe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projection_(mathematics)

So my original comment is not quite right either. The embedding is a structure preserving map. A projection isn't necessarily structure preserving. ''' To be an embedding, such a mapping must preserve order "both ways": ''' http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Embedding.html

I think that a projection from p dimensions to q<p dimensions isn't structure preserving.

At this point a mathematician may be able to explain more.

Re:Show HN: Basilica – word2vec for anything by xapata on Thursday November 01, 2018 @12:08PM (#18355388)
SVMs project the data into a higher dimensional space, not lower. A mixed blob of dots on a plane can't be cleanly separated by a line into two colors, but if you blow them out into a cube by some arbitrary projection, a plane will be able to separate them cleanly.