> Without the Arab and Muslim scholarship much of Greek/Roman wisdom would be lost.

I've just been on a holiday in Venice and Florence, which made me question that standard wisdom, as I learnt more about Venice and Constantinople.

The most important effect of those texts, I guess, was the Italian Renaissance. Petrarch seems to have found his books by hunting through old piles in attics, and the Venetians got (looted?) theirs directly from the Byzantines. It isn't clear to me that the Arabs had a major role.

The Spanish got their classical books from the Moors. But what did they do with those books, and why does that matter?

> The Spanish got their classical books from the Moors. But what did they do with those books, and why does that matter?

Arguably, had a huge affect in kicking off the Renaissance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_School_of_Translators

Venice, certainly, had significant ties to Constantinople, most notably looting the hell out of it in the 4th Crusade in the 1200s.

Both "Zero" and "Cipher" come from the same Arabic word "ṣifr" and whenever I remember that, I tell whoever's near me.

Yup cipher comes from sifr which is arabic for zero.

Islamic/arabic world could not keep up with the science, unfortunately.

Let's not go into religious or racial flamewar, please.

As a muslim myself, this is not a religion war. It simply is the case. There is no reasonable budget for science in most/all of muslim dominant countries, and the budget that exists is not used effectively. Private sector support for technology is very limited, and medical research especially genetic research is very limited.

I wish this was not the case.

I do not care who produces the science, we all are one and the same. Science benefits all.

Imagine if during the height of the Greek golden age most of the largest cities were razed to the ground and their populations systematically exterminated. That means Athens as we knew it would have been reduced to rubble.

That's what happened during the Mongol Conquests. The fall of Baghdad alone caused at least several hundred thousand people to be killed. The main library, which had collected countless works over the centuries, was gone.

Baghdad was rebuilt, of course. Economically and politically it bounced back since it was still right on the silk road. But scientific study never really recovered there.

One might, on the other hand, wonder what might have happened if the Mongols hadn't been infected by Islamic schism and dynastic troubles and completed their push through into Mamluk Egypt. As pivotal as Ayn Jalut was, the groundwork for that failure was laid in the religious conversion of [1]Berke and the Golden Horde to Islam.

[1] Initially listed his brother Batu, rather than Berke, the first Muslim Khan.

Very true! Egypt was able to continue mostly unscathed. Perhaps this indicates that the Arab golden age was in its twilight? Maybe the Mamluks didn't invest in the sciences as much as the Fatimids?

And even further west Andalusia was still chugging along. That was definitely an important source of knowledge for the first universities in the rest of Europe.

I am hoping israel is giving the kick the region needs in terms of scientific progress. They are kicking ass, pushing boundaries. For them, it might have more reasons beyond scientific curiosity and capitalism, it might also be existential.

Definitely. Iran already has more in publications in total than Israel, although they're still way behind when looking at the per capita number. Hopefully this trend continues.

Those "muslim" scholars were mostly not arab,, and were constantly being accused for heresy. It is smart people that produce science and not Islam. The only science Islam has produced is the magical benefits of drinking camel urine and Hijama. No thanks.

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