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Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by gumby on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @06:44PM (#18297115)
Similarly to how agreed-upon overflights increase security (as your opponent knows you're not preparing an attack and/or are keeping to treaty obligations) one could consider this a good thing.

Of course China is not currently a military threat to the US, at least at the level deserving attention of a US president (e.g. random encounters in the Spratleys are jostling, not escalation).

I certainly don't think this is a responsible practice but it's interesting to consider it in a game theoretic context.

Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by sandworm101 on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:20PM (#18297325)
Overflights check on what countries are physically doing. Stepping up that concept, trust but verify, to include policy changes is a big leap. Overflights do not provide a chance to directly alter behavior in the way that diagramming a president's cellpohone patterns can. This isn't verification. This is intelligence being used to alter policy. That isn't trust but verify, that's, examine, meddle and influence.
Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by _iyig on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:50PM (#18297470)
>Of course China is not currently a military threat to the US ...

I would disagree. China routinely threatens U.S. naval vessels which transit disputed regions of the South China Sea, and maintains a large battery of missiles pointed at Taiwan, an American diplomatic ally. They have also developed hypersonic anti-carrier missiles, and are rapidly expanding their blue-water navy.

Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by gumby on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @08:01PM (#18297538)
I referred the jostling in the Spratleys in my comment and on their ability to project force in another comment down thread.

They are rapidly expanding a blue water navy from a tiny starting point (e.g. recently bringing online a Ukranian aircraft carrier (not a super carrier) doubled their carrier force) and have a few remote naval bases, but their strength, to the degree it exists, is locally strong and externally mainly soft power.

There is no question the US would abandon Taiwan the same as Macarthur pulled back to the southern half of Australia in WWII. Pragmatics argues this -- as pragmatics argue against China actually attacking Taiwan militarily any time in the next 30 years. E.g. bombing Hon Hai would degrade Chinese manufacturing unacceptably.

Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by komali2 on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:15PM (#18297296)
In surprised to hear someone say China is not a military threat to the United States. Can you expound on this?

For example, I believe China could easily organize and fund far more terrorist attacks than, say, bin laden ever did. Furthermore, their terrorist attacks could much more easily utilize nuclear material.

Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by snowwrestler on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:27PM (#18297363)
China has no interest in funding terrorist attacks against the U.S. or anyone else. They want to be a Great Power, not a rogue state.

Aside from nukes, which would draw an obvious and unstoppable reprisal from the U.S., China does not have the military capability to meaningfully threaten the U.S. They don't have the aircraft, ships, subs, landing craft, etc. And again, I don't know why they would want that.

They do have the means to threaten their regional neighbors, though, and some of them are U.S. allies. That's the WWIII threat: that Chinese regional aggression sucks the U.S. into a military confrontation on China's turf.

Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by komali2 on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:30PM (#18297382)
Interesting. I feel I could say the same of the USA vs China - any outright attack against China would draw a massive response, and I hardly believe the USA is capable of occupying China in any meaningful way.
Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by gumby on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:55PM (#18297501)
Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "massive response" as China's nuclear capability is more for regional prurposes (i.e. India) though I do believe they have some ICBMs capable of reaching anywhere in north america. But their military resources are much smaller (e.g. they only have a couple of aircraft carriers and no supercarriers) and the PLA isn't really set up for projection of force at a distance.

I do agree to the extent that though the US would win any initial skirmish the long term viability of such an effort close to or on the Chinese mainland is probably not great.

Then again I can't come up with any reason the US would want to fight a war with China either (or vice versa), but who knows these days.

Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by jacobsheehy on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:19PM (#18297315)
A physically violent and currently-attacking-us Russia, spying on the communications of the US President*, is _not_ a good thing. This is a very clear military threat.
Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by smt88 on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:07PM (#18297250)
China isn't a military threat, but Russia has proved that military power isn't necessary to sow chaos and destabilize the US. You don't even need military-grade hackers.
Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by downandout on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:26PM (#18297349)
Russia has "destabilized" the US? That is hyperbole at best, unless you know something I don't. What exactly are you referring to? They seem to have destabilized the US media, in the sense that they can't publish enough stories about Russia. But have they actually achieved anything in any real way?
[dead]
Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by downandout on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:35PM (#18297404)
There are so many issues with your comment that I don't know where to begin, but I won't bother addressing all of them because it will just devolve into typical Hn-ness. I will address the more egregious misstatements you have made.

Russia actively attacks US election infrastructure

Running a few ads, with a small budget, or having some fake Twitter accounts post things that millions of others are already saying, in my view does not constitute an "attack on the US election infrastructure".

Our elections were hacked with...real physical hacks

That would be news indeed. Source?

People are dying in the streets from the actions taken by violent right-wing people who are directly encouraged by language from RT and from the President

Source?

constantly gather support to jail people who have committed no crimes

Source? Please name one person currently in jail in the US that has not been convicted of a crime and does not have a criminal case pending. Again, that would indeed be news.

Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by jacobsheehy on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:39PM (#18297415)
> There are so many issues with your comment that I don't know where to begin, but I won't bother addressing all of them because it will just devolve into typical Hn-ness. But I will address the more egregious misstatements you have made.

There's no need to insult me to start with. Please abide by the HN guidelines and do not just start insulting people. Let's just talk about all this and get right to the content:

> Running a few ads, with a small budget, or having some fake Twitter accounts post things that millions of others are already saying, in my view does not constitute an "attack on the US election infrastructure".

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm talking about specifically hacking the voting infrastructure and removing voters from the voting rolls. You're going on about ads or something with a small budget (???) but I have no idea what you're talking about.

Here is a citation that Russia directly hacks the elections themselves: https://slate.com/technology/2018/07/russia-election-hacking...

> That would be news indeed. Source?

Oh yeah, that is the biggest news of the last two years. I picked a source and cited it.

> Source?

Well, Heather Heyer was murdered in this fashion.

> constantly gather support to jail people who have committed no crimes

Well Beto for one! Ted Cruz trying to drum up support to jail Beto O'Rourke last night was wild. Scary and sad :(

Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:52PM (#18297480)
> You're going on about ads or something with a small budget (???) but I have no idea what you're talking about.

The amount of money Russia spent on Facebook ads.

> Well, Heather Heyer was murdered in this fashion.

That was tragic. Evil, even. But you said "People are dying in the streets from the actions taken by violent right-wing people", and when pressed for evidence, you cite the only instance that has happened in two years. But you claimed more than that. You claimed "people" (plural) "are" (present tense). You have dramatically overstated a real, horrible, but still one-off instance into a general trend.

> Well Beto for one! Ted Cruz trying to drum up support to jail Beto O'Rourke last night was wild. Scary and sad :(

Ted Cruz is trying to drum up support for getting re-elected, nothing more. (You've seen this before. Note that Hillary remains completely un-locked-up.) It's sad, all right, that Cruz would use this tactic. But Beto isn't going to jail, win or lose, unless he actually does something, no matter what Cruz says in a campaign situation.

Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by downandout on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:42PM (#18297427)
Again, typical Hn-ness. Have a great afternoon!
Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by dang on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:53PM (#18297489)
This kind of political flamewar is the sort of thing we ban accounts for. Please don't do it here, at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by jacobsheehy on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:43PM (#18297432)
Yes, your constant downplaying and total denial of the most important technology and political events of the century is very "HN like". Have a great afternoon.
Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by dang on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:53PM (#18297487)
If you go back to using HN for political flamewar, we're going to have to ban you again. Please do it somewhere else; not here, at all.
Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by downandout on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @11:34PM (#18298394)
There's no need to insult me to start with.

I intended no insult, nor did I post one. I simply pointed out that there were glaring factual issues with your comment. I apologize if you misinterpreted what I said.

Re:When Trump Phones Friends, the Chinese and the Russians L... by fit2rule on Wednesday October 24, 2018 @07:14PM (#18297288)
The problem is that American interests have extended beyond the limits of the American borders for too long - China exercising its rights to protect its own interests outside its borders is a response to that, which automatically triggers American hubris: "nobody, but the 'greatest nation on Earth', should have the right to say its interests extend beyond its borders" .. this is the point of American hegemony in the world. If America doesn't do it, someone else will - so eventually, America becomes the very threat it was resisting all along: a totalitarian state which uses its military might to usurp the interests of other nations, at any and all cost.