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Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by cm2012 on Saturday October 20, 2018 @10:17AM (#18263395)
Photoshop has been around forever but I can't remember a time any forgery caused an issue publically.
Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by snowwrestler on Saturday October 20, 2018 @10:33AM (#18263450)
The public issue usually comes when the photoshopping is discovered. National Geographic got huge public pushback when it became clear that they had "moved" Egypt's pyramids for a cover. And Iran came in for mockery when it became clear that they had photoshopped extra missiles into a launch photo.

Forgeries are hugely risky for legitimate organizations; if discovered, the backlash can hurt them quite a bit.

Fringe, extremist, criminal elements have used forgeries to further their goals, and they will do so with "deep fake" videos too.

But our society is dominated by organizations that run on trust. And those organizations will have to quickly learn (indeed, they are learning now) how to distinguish and filter out the deep fakes. Just like they did with fake letters, fake signatures, and fake photos.

Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by mey on Saturday October 20, 2018 @10:39AM (#18263472)
Or Russian news channel using Arma (video game) footage as if it was real combat footage.
Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by phyller on Saturday October 20, 2018 @10:38AM (#18263467)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11...

I'd say that was a pretty big deal (Russians providing a "satellite image" showing a Ukrainian fighter plane shooting down a commercial airliner).

Bad actors use this kind of technology whenever they think they can get away with it. As someone else mentioned, they've used video game footage and pretended it was actual combat footage.

Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by myownlittlworld on Saturday October 20, 2018 @10:26AM (#18263427)
Have you so quickly forgotten Emma Gonzalez? We don't need Deep Fakes to cause problems, regular ones will do just fine.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/emma-gonzalez-ripping-up-c...

Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by dguo on Saturday October 20, 2018 @10:36AM (#18263457)
Even if they haven't caused any obvious crisis, fake images do go viral. It's human nature to trust what you see, and it takes effort to maintain skepticism.

Exhibit 1: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/fake-news-trump-flood...

Exhibit 2: https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/26/us/emma-gonzalez-photo-doctor...

Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by tw1010 on Saturday October 20, 2018 @02:10PM (#18264583)
Yeah, this is why I'm not worried one iota about deepfakes. Say what you will about fake news, but blantant lies like a faked video or image generally does not get through journalistic filters. Something big like a fake video of a celebrity or a president would very unlikely be published (and if it grew viral through some disingenuous source, its spread would be severely dampened by trusted newssites warning the public not to believe it). I mean just look at the subsequent backlash after oobah butler's pranks. Sure, his prank fooled the news, but it's effects were totally nil in the long-term steady state.
Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by chrisco255 on Saturday October 20, 2018 @07:48PM (#18266075)
You realize that a very small minority of the overall population even watches news or pays much attention to it, right? A well-timed fake video could cause a riot, erode trust in institutions, antagonize relationships, and disrupt the social fabric.

It will become even more apparent when the population is primed to believe it, pick your hot button issue of the day and some significant portion of the population would absolutely believe a fake video depicting the opposing party doing something horrible, without pausing to reflect.

Even seemingly harmless caricatures, like Tina Fey's infamous SNL skit of Sarah Palin ("I can see Russia from my house"), have a long term affect on people's perception of reality: http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/59838/1/USAPP_Blog_In_politics_cari...

In that paper a survey found that 7 in 10 Americans believed that Palin actually said that.

The mass production of deep fakes will have a deep and profound impact on society. I'm not keen on where this is heading.

Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by CM30 on Sunday October 21, 2018 @08:13AM (#18267661)
Depends how good the journalistic filters are. Would these deepfakes get through the ones for the New York Times or BBC or Telegraph? Maybe not, but I have no doubt they'd fool the tabloid papers, especially given how low the standards are for stuff like the Sun/Daily Mirror/Daily Star/etc. They'd also likely fool quite a few specialist sites too, especially given the likes of the gaming press have very low standards for credible sources or evidence. People on Twitter have fooled them with blurry cellphone photos on a semi regular basis.

But it definitely depends on the news source and how thorough they are with verifying stories.

Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by tw1010 on Sunday October 21, 2018 @09:19AM (#18267845)
Sure, but I still don't see why we should be hysterically scared about its development since I think photoshopped images would have made the same damage a long time ago if the system was really that fragile. The fact that photoshopped images aren't nearly as big a threat as what we're expecting deepfakes to be makes me think that however the set of amplifiers and filters are configured (and I'll admit that I don't have a full understanding of it all), it's likely that they're sufficient to not make society collapse once the technology has matured.

Photoshopped images are a sort of "trial balloon" which has already proven that the system is pretty dang robust, that's my thesis.

Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by jcoffland on Saturday October 20, 2018 @02:55PM (#18264832)
What about the likely fake Chinese spy chip news put out recently by Blomberg? The pictures of the spy chip that this supposedly reputable news agency plastered all over the Internet have been shown to be nothing more than a bog standard filter chip they found on Mouser Electronics' website. Fake news is not automatically distinguishable from real news regardless of the source.
Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by nikk1 on Monday October 22, 2018 @05:13PM (#18278572)
You're right, that using deepfakes would be difficult to manipulate the general public with. There are plenty of dangerous cases where deepfakes could be effective, especially in the military or in business. The article sites two examples:

what if you see satellite images of a country mobilizing or testing nuclear weapons? What if someone synthesized sensor measurements?

Another example I could think of is a highly sophisticated spearphising attack. What if someone impersonated a boss's voice over the phone? What kind social engineering/manipulation could that type of adversary get away with?

Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by avivo on Saturday October 20, 2018 @12:53PM (#18264123)
Forgeries have had significant impacts. Everything from beef being photoshopped into meals leading to violence (e.g. in Hindu regions), to significantly impacting the burden of proof required for prosecution of war crimes.
Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by currymj on Saturday October 20, 2018 @11:05AM (#18263584)
i also can’t think of a case where a forgery has caused a serious problem in the public sphere.

however, there are tons of gullible and/or wilfully stupid people who respond to photoshopped pictures on social media as if they are real.

especially when these images are politically charged, some of them probably believe it and some “believe” because it fits their world view and makes them feel righteous.

Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by jcoffland on Saturday October 20, 2018 @02:58PM (#18264848)
> i also can’t think of a case where a forgery has caused a serious problem in the public sphere.

You're not paying attention then. Here's just one example.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4333499/indi...

Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by currymj on Saturday October 20, 2018 @07:33PM (#18266030)
right, isolated small groups or individuals believe the fake videos (or "believe" them, it's possible some of these groups were already looking for an excuse for violence).

but it's not really the public sphere -- there is no nationwide uncertainty about these videos. the police understand perfectly that they are fake, for instance.

Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by sleepychu on Saturday October 20, 2018 @10:18AM (#18263398)
Videos are so shareable though. The video will go viral before it's successfully disputed.
Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by thekingofh on Saturday October 20, 2018 @10:20AM (#18263401)
Images are too.
Re:Tricks That Can Outsmart Deepfake Videos for Now by barbecue_sauce on Saturday October 20, 2018 @10:40AM (#18263476)
Probably even more so than video.