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Re:The Student Loan Debt Crisis Is About to Get Worse by jancsika on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @03:45PM (#18243012)
Kids in the 60s were similarly entitled. Watch the Woodstock documentary to see a bunch of hippies trash a small town and leave the townspeople and federal gov't to keep them safe and foot the bill.

The difference is that a hippie who got bored with a commune could get a job and in less than a year had disposable income to pay for goods and services.

Now take a 20-something today who gets bored playing fortnite and decides to get a job. It's the same as the hippie, except a) they have something like 50K of debt (and rising), b) from day 1 their place of business starts getting telemarketer calls for student load consolidation, c) debt collectors call their employer in an attempt to intimate and harass them, d) at worst their wages are garnished to pay the interest on their loan, e) they are depressed because of a-e. (Aside: when that employee leaves the organization the debt consolidation telemarketers very quickly cease calling, which is super creepy.)

That last point about depression is key. Imagine the existential crisis of a hippie who must challenge their idealism and come to terms with the much more limited (yet realistic) freedom that comes when working for a living. Now for the fortnite player add a sense of interminable dread from a sea of debt that cannot be unloaded even in bankruptcy. The small joy of choosing what to do with the money one has saved is gone when one cannot save any money.

I can't think of any persuasive argument that says the hippies wouldn't have been swimming in debt if college had been funded that way in the 60s.

Upshot-- I can't figure out the source of your mixed feelings. If students today are entitled, they are no more entitled than previous generations of students who didn't deal with this kind of debt crisis.

Anyway, a critique of a human institution almost always involves humans who are not acting responsibly. If every institutional critique devolves into a discussion of how irresponsible a critical mass of the actors are, what's the point of doing the institutional critique?

Re:The Student Loan Debt Crisis Is About to Get Worse by andrei_says_ on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @07:12PM (#18244627)
I dislike the way you’re framing the conversation.

Maybe we take a 20-year old who worked really hard to move through college and get her degrees while working part time to cover at least food.

She was in fact told that degrees do guarantee jobs , as a part of the for-profit education sales pitch.

She is now facing an economy where every possible job has been outsourced, and wages have laughably low purchasing power, and that’s before you consider the costs of rent in locales where jobs are available.

It’s an employers market, in a post-crash (and of course pre-crash) economy where employers have “trimmed the fat” as much as possible and in many cases left their existing employees to cover for multiple jobs.

I can’t see any entitlement here apart from the expectation of livable wages set by the education industrial complex and the low unemployment numbers based on a gig economy and non-livable wages requiring holding multiple jobs to survive.

Lastly, are you using “hippie” in light of the government propaganda effort to paint anti-war activists as unclean, undisciplined and confused? Repeating the frame enforces it.

Re:The Student Loan Debt Crisis Is About to Get Worse by JBlue42 on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:28PM (#18245454)
Excellent counterpoint. Malcom's Harris' "Kids These Days" goes into a lot of that. Not only the debt but psychology of how their perspectives are groomed in US society.

https://www.amazon.com/Kids-These-Days-Capital-Millennials/d...

Re:The Student Loan Debt Crisis Is About to Get Worse by WAthrowaway on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @05:41PM (#18244070)
Your points about the entitlement of hippies is disingenuous. Max Yasgur wholeheartedly allowed Woodstock to happen on his property. Paid workers helped clean up the aftermath as well as volunteers.
Re:The Student Loan Debt Crisis Is About to Get Worse by jancsika on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @06:55PM (#18244535)
Watch the documentary. In the middle of a townsperson telling the interviewer about how everyone is trespassing and making a mess of the town and its infrastructure, two hippies wander up onto his lawn. One of them asks,

"Is it okay if we use your telephone?"

To which the man answers that the phones are out. To which the hippie replies,

"Water?"

You might think this the source of the "Get off my lawn" and similar references people on HN use. I mean, what could be more of an embodiment of entitlement?

But what does this townsperson do? You should watch the documentary to find out. But I'll give you a hint-- it isn't to say, "Get off my lawn." Nor even, "I'm conflicted because on the one hand this is now a national disaster area, but on the other you knew that if you and 100,000 others come to a small town and stress the infrastructure there was a possibility that this could happen, and I wouldn't want to set a precedent of..."

Re:The Student Loan Debt Crisis Is About to Get Worse by volkl48 on Thursday October 18, 2018 @12:05AM (#18245812)
I think your whole tangent here is drastically missing the mark, though.

The individual concert-goers didn't know there'd be far more people than expected and that local infrastructure and the organizer would be overwhelmed.

They saw there was a concert and decided to go, just like every other show anyone attends.

Upon arriving, they were stuck in a situation they didn't expect and which people don't expect when they head to a large event that's supposedly "official" .

At that point (gridlock, overwhelmed infrastructure), they're without any options beyond asking others for help, because they weren't prepared for a situation that shouldn't have happened. They came to attend a concert, not a survivalist retreat.

Re:The Student Loan Debt Crisis Is About to Get Worse by Izkata on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @06:16PM (#18244322)
> c) debt collectors call their employer in an attempt to intimate and harass them

Aside: Unless something really odd is going on, I can't help but think you meant "intimidate"...

Re:The Student Loan Debt Crisis Is About to Get Worse by jancsika on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @06:38PM (#18244444)
There's no possibility for oddities because intimate is a transitive verb. That would cause a syntax error.

Syntax errors are not allowed. Thus, in place of "intimate" I obviously meant `rm -rf /*`

Let me edit tha