News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by rory096 on Thursday October 11, 2018 @07:29AM (#18192556)
Worth noting: launch escape tower was jettisoned nominally moments before the failure. Escape was via the capsule separation mechanism followed by ballistic then parachute descent. If the booster had exploded, the crew would have been in extreme danger.
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by _Tev on Friday October 12, 2018 @12:24PM (#18202493)
Boosters don't really "explode". When ruptured they burn really fast, but (assuming engine shutdown and non-malfunctioning capsule separation) at such high altitude there is not that much danger from simple conflagration.

Sure, in _very_ rare case engines might not shut down or something else might get broken, but "If the booster had exploded, the crew would have been in extreme danger." seems too over the top. Launch escape tower is jettisoned for a reason ...

Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by village-idiot on Thursday October 11, 2018 @08:13AM (#18192803)
Was jettisoning the escape tower at that moment planned, or was that a failure?
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by dogma1138 on Thursday October 11, 2018 @08:31AM (#18192922)
Normal the tower is used for launch pad abort and for a very short window afterwards.

The Soyuz launch abort system is actually quite robust probably the best launch abort system that has been implemented for manned flight so far with the Orion and Crew Dragon only marginally improving on it and even that is still not clear given those haven’t been flown yet alone actually used in practice yet.

Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by coob on Thursday October 11, 2018 @08:42AM (#18192990)
It hasn't flown any missions, but Crew Dragon has had its launch pad abort tested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcHD9AmkxA0
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by dogma1138 on Thursday October 11, 2018 @08:57AM (#18193092)
Yes, but there is a difference between being tested and being used. On paper the Crew Dragon launch abort system is slightly better since it doesn't rely on an escape tower for launch pad abort but in reality it's not clear how much better and safer for the crew the whole thing would be.
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by orbital-decay on Thursday October 11, 2018 @10:18AM (#18193725)
I'm not sure if having eight high-pressure hydrazine engines (which must work in perfect sync) inches apart from the crew is safer than a classic launch escape tower with a single solid booster on top.
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by dmix on Thursday October 11, 2018 @10:45AM (#18193924)
Do other types of rocket engines not need to be in perfect sync?
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by orbital-decay on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:15AM (#18194164)
A classic launch escape system doesn't. It has several exhausts, but it's a single booster.
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by njarboe on Thursday October 11, 2018 @12:16PM (#18194760)
The original plan for Crew Dragon was to have it land with rockets like a rocket should, instead of with parachutes. They also wanted to have a design that could also land on Mars. Safety first NASA didn't allow that plan. Not sure if rockets are still powerful enough to do a powered landing coming from orbit. I hope so and that tourists will have the option of returning that way even if NASA astronauts don't.
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by rory096 on Thursday October 11, 2018 @12:47PM (#18195008)
They will not develop powered landing. SuperDraco or not, one of the main obstacles was the difficulty and risk of putting legs through the heatshield.

Smaller Dracos are used for in-orbit maneuvering. SuperDracos are now solely for launch abort. They could conceivably be used for an orbital maneuver requiring more delta-v than the fine-tuning the Dracos do, but at this point the only likely destination for Dragon is the ISS.

Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by 7952 on Thursday October 11, 2018 @12:01PM (#18194612)
One advantage is that you avoid having to jettison the escape tower which would add some complexity and risk.

Also, the engines are designed for use in space during a normal mission and to be recovered. So in that configuration the crew would still need to be located close to a hydrazine thruster as a part of a normal flight.

Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by LeifCarrotson on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:15AM (#18194161)
> eight high-pressure hydrazine engines (which must work in perfect sync)

There's eight for redundancy, it's a fault-tolerant system.

Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by rbanffy on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:54AM (#18194546)
There are 8 independent engines, IIRC, mounted two by two. I think they are controlled in pairs, one on each side of the craft so as to avoid an engine on one side not knowing its counterpart on the other side failed and forcing the capsule to spin instead of fly away from the faulty booster.
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by rory096 on Thursday October 11, 2018 @09:41AM (#18193423)
Orion has also done a pad abort test, for what it's worth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j68mszdhTmY

Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by cptskippy on Thursday October 11, 2018 @10:34AM (#18193842)
Why does Lockheed's official video look like it was filmed by my uncle on his VHS camcorder?
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by dmix on Thursday October 11, 2018 @10:48AM (#18193951)
Looks like someone is recording a video feed broadcast via a projector onto a dark wall with a cellphone or camera. Probably a cellphone from 8yrs ago.
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by moreira on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:13AM (#18194145)
Off-topic, but, a cellphone from 8 years ago is the iPhone 4. Isn't that crazy to think about?
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by cptskippy on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:21AM (#18194224)
We're way off topic at this point. I think the iPhone 4's video quality would be better.
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by dmix on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:58PM (#18199095)
Regardless it's a video recording of a video being projected onto a wall. The cellphone quality is the least important part of my comment and has improved dramatically in quality on the average smart over 8yrs (iPhone tends to be leading edge and that phone was brand new at the time which not everyone has).
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by rory096 on Thursday October 11, 2018 @08:16AM (#18192822)
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by theoh on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:11AM (#18194125)
It's so bizarre that in NASA-speak the word nominal means not the value that a parameter should have ("in name") but the fact that the parameter is within a specified tolerance of that value. It's like a contraction of "<value> is what it should be, according to its formal definition". https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/184876/how-did-n...
Re:Astronauts escape malfunctioning Soyuz rocket by MPSimmons on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:55AM (#18194552)
SNAFU, so to speak.