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Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by petermcneeley on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:22PM (#18161628)
"It was five days long, with days of rest staggered across the week. Now, the Soviet economist and politician Yuri Larin proposed, the machines need never be idle." This is actually totally sensible and was practiced in the factory where I once worked.
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by soneil on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:51PM (#18162051)
It is sensible, on the face of it. It just doesn't appear to scale.

Once you and your partner are both on shifts, any semblance of a weekend is gone. I worked 3-on 2-off for a long time, it was fantastic. Then once I got a live-in partner, on a regular 9-5, I was unavailable for 40% of her weekends. That was a stretch.

Add in kids, and it'll get even messier. If mom's day off is Tuesday, dad's day off is Thursday, and the kids have the weekend off?

It works for the factory, but the more of the same family you put on opposing shifts, the messier it gets.

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by TomK32 on Sunday October 07, 2018 @03:12PM (#18162141)
Scheduling is hard but in a factory you have a wider range of workers in different life circumstances, add small factor to the pay on unpopular days and it could work. Here in Germany hairdressers are closed on Mondays because they are open on Saturdays. If we can finally move on to the four-workday-week we can also think about rescheduling work more flexible with the help of computers.
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by waynecochran on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:47PM (#18161757)
Totally sensible? The whole thesis of the article is its failure.
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by Avshalom on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:48PM (#18161761)
And yet find me the Walmart that's closed Sundays.
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by Pxtl on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:20PM (#18161902)
Honestly, this drives me nuts. Retail used to be a middle-class job... And now we're employing more people to work longer hours but less money per hour, so in the end the same amount of wages are paid but it's less livable for the individual employee. And for what? So we can get groceries at 10pm on a Sunday.

The same amount of product is getting sold for the same amount of wages, it's just the wages are smeared across more hours.

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by pgeorgi on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:29PM (#18161943)
Germany. That is, as long as Walmart had tried to fight German labour laws.

They've since given up, so I guess it's really "Germany, in the past".

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by ars on Sunday October 07, 2018 @03:10PM (#18162130)
And yet they are open on Saturday. So I suspect it's more to do with the Christian religion than with preserving weekends.

Can a store in Germany choose to close on Saturday and open on Sunday?

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by sonnyblarney on Sunday October 07, 2018 @05:43PM (#18162778)
Culture and Religion are deeply intertwined in most of the world, even if people are not particularly overtly religious, traditions and behaviours are integrated.

It's pretty hard to convince regular people how they should change their ancient ways to make investors an extra buck.

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by pgeorgi on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:06AM (#18165585)
> Can a store in Germany choose to close on Saturday and open on Sunday?

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/arbzg/__9.html says "no work on Sundays or public holidays from 0:00 to 24:00", plus a few exceptions where the 24 hours window can be shifted by up to 6 hours (but has to remain 24 hours long).

This implies a legal work week from Monday to Saturday within which employment contracts can schedule their working hours (following more rules, eg. not more than 10 hours at a time, mandatory breaks of a certain length within those 10 hours, and at least 11 hours of rest between two days of work).

7-8 hours a day Monday to Friday is currently normal, but deviations are possible within the legal limit.

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/arbzg/__10.html enumerates the exceptions to the "no work on Sunday/holidays" rule. If your business doesn't fit into these exceptions (as is common for regular stores), you're not allowed to open on Sundays.

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by ars on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @10:34PM (#18181538)
Do Jewish business fit in the list of exception? Can they open on Sunday and close on Saturday instead?
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by pgeorgi on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @08:19AM (#18184119)
There's no mention of religion in the laws I cited.

Some digging got me https://www.verkaufsoffener-sonntag.com/ladenoeffnungszeiten..., which tells a history of shopping time in Germany (although I don't know how accurate). There are minor differences on the wiki page about the same topic (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laden%C3%B6ffnungszeit#Geschic...)

According to that page the first laws of that kind in Germany were established in 1900 and were amended by exemptions for grocery stores - and jewish shops (to open on sunday instead of saturday).

Merchants (presumably including the jewish ones? that article doesn't tell) worked out a new scheme in 1911-1919 that introduced common closing times and the "calm sunday" to coordinate opening hours. While there were other changes in the meantime (mostly around closing hours), the Sunday provision stuck since then.

(Also note that there are separate laws for working hours and shop opening hours. The citations up-thread were about working hours, while this post refers to shop opening hours)

There was a constitutional court decision ~10 years ago as the state of Berlin (shop opening hours are a state matter) decided to relax the rules. "10 Sundays across the year, and all Sundays in December" (in the lead-time to Christmas) were supposed to be shopping days. The churches sued, and while religious aspects came up as well, the main thrust was about the social state principle (ie. "One full month with no mandated rest leads to exploitation"), and so the rules where tightened somewhat.

I guess a state could enact per-shop rules (ie that a shop could decide to open up to 6 days a week as to their choosing, and to avoid exploiting the regulation, the schedule must be held up for at least a year).

As Berlin seems to be the hub of Jewish life in Germany, that looks like a good place to lobby for that, but that would also require some changes to §9 / §10 ArbzG as linked upthread as an open shop on sunday without people working there is rather useless.

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by dan-robertson on Sunday October 07, 2018 @03:33PM (#18162235)
There are lots of laws in different European countries about when businesses can open on Sundays. They typically have religious origin (aiming for all people being sober and able to go to church on Sunday) but most of those countries are not so religious now yet some of the laws remain. Perhaps it’s just inertia, or some interest in the laws staying the same (eg in the U.K. small shops can open longer hours on a Sunday), or maybe in some places the people don’t want the laws to change.
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by hibbelig on Sunday October 07, 2018 @03:55PM (#18162325)
Saturday used to be a workday. It might have remained a workday for shops to make it easier for the Monday to Friday, nine to five, people to go shopping.

Shops used to close at 6:30pm, which made it difficult to do shopping after work. So being able to go shopping on Saturday was important.

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by pgeorgi on Monday October 08, 2018 @04:42AM (#18165427)
Saturday is still legally considered a work day in Germany.

One of the more important places to remember this today are public parking lots with usage limits on work days: those apply on Saturdays just like on Mo-Fr.

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by waynecochran on Sunday October 07, 2018 @01:52PM (#18161780)
Yes. I do find we would be better off if these places were closed on Sundays. But this hardly compares to the forced labor of the USSR.
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by AnarchoYeasty on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:04PM (#18161832)
How. You are forced to work or you lose your job and your house, food, etc. Please tell me how our system was so much more moral than theirs. Where working at Walmart for 40+ hours a week still isn't enough to make rent. Where many people are working 2 or 3 jobs just to have a roof over their head and food on their table. Let me guess, you are a middle class white guy who never had to experience that, that's why you think our system is so much more moral.
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by stale2002 on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:42PM (#18161998)
Well for one, you have a choice of where you want to work.

If you can convince someone to hire you, the government isn't going to come in and say "actually, we need more factory workers. So you don't work there any more. You instead are working here."

I'd also like to point out that there are numerous places in the US where people are perfectly capable of living on minimum wage, working 40 hours a week.

Most homeless people are homeless not because it is impossible for someone to live off of these wages, in the right areas. They are instead homeless because they have some sort of mental or physical disability that makes them incapable of work.

The idea though, that able bodied adults are unable to provide for themselves, is ridiculous. There are numerous living conditions and places where it is cheap enough to live off of.

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by 8K71PS on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:59PM (#18162087)
> Well for one, you have a choice of where you want to work.

No you don't , it's entirely dependent on your birth and the luck of the draw in what class you were born into, your opportunities etc.

> If you can convince someone to hire you, the government isn't going to come in and say "actually, we need more factory workers. So you don't work there any more. You instead are working here."

There was no forced allotment of work in the soviet union, that's a nonsense claim coming from McCarthyist myths

> I'd also like to point out that there are numerous places in the US where people are perfectly capable of living on minimum wage, working 40 hours a week.

Not without exorbitant debt or unfavourable conditions compared to those who work above the minimum wage. A society that does not require you to work, and allows a livable wage for all work is a preferable one.

> Most homeless people are homeless not because it is impossible for someone to live off of these wages, in the right areas. They are instead homeless because they have some sort of mental or physical disability that makes them incapable of work.

That's not true at all, here in Ireland for example, mostly it's because of real estate speculation and treating houses as investments rather than places were people live. Mental and physical disability should not mean you live out on the streets

> The idea though, that able bodied adults are unable to provide for themselves, is ridiculous. There are numerous living conditions and places where it is cheap enough to live off of.

I've never seen a country where most of the homeless were unemployable, and in many cases the homeless have jobs, at least here. It is absurd to argue that people should move into the rural equivalent of a ghetto , devoid of job opportunities or development, or live cold.

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by stale2002 on Sunday October 07, 2018 @03:13PM (#18162149)
There are tons of places in the first world that are both cheap, and definitely not a ghetto.

Not everyone should live in the Bay area, or New York, or even downtown in some major city!

There are lots and lots of places that are even within commuting distance of a major city (that isnt SF or New York...), That are inexpensive.

The world is bigger than a couple coastal cities, and there are lots of opportunities if you are willing to expand your horizons beyond 1% of the land.

> here in Ireland for example, mostly it's because of real estate speculation and treating houses as investments rather than places were people live

Then maybe people shouldn't live in this very small percentage of the world, or expand your horizons beyond demanding that you be able to live in the most expensive parts of it?

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by blfr on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:55PM (#18162069)
Please tell me how our system was so much more moral than theirs.

There's this FTFA

For ordinary workers, quitting one’s job, missing a day’s work or being over 20 minutes late became criminal offenses, with mandatory prison sentences.

and then there are tens of millions of people murdered, starved, and sent to gulags by the communists.

Communism has an absolute lock on the title of the greatest moral failure in human history.

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by waynecochran on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:20PM (#18161898)
You point about about the plight of the poor in any country including the US should be taken seriously. You comparison with Stalinist USSR is completely insane. Go read The Gulag Archipelago. Please.
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by danharaj on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:28PM (#18161941)
That's not a book of scholarship. Read an actual historical account of the gulag system. Trust me, its depressing enough without literary embellishment.

And then compare it to the atrocities that established western capitalism. Fairly, I recommend.

[dead]
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by waynecochran on Sunday October 07, 2018 @03:00PM (#18162095)
Western Propaganda? Are you serious?
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by monocasa on Sunday October 07, 2018 @03:11PM (#18162136)
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by Udik on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:01PM (#18161823)
Don't most factories work like that?
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by ozim on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:25PM (#18161929)
When it is some factories and some workplaces it is ok. When you try to adopt it nationwide it breaks down.

Like in hospitality, hotels are not going to stop cleaning rooms on weekends. You are not going to close restaurants on weekends. So quite some people in services also have random days in week off.

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by Fripplebubby on Sunday October 07, 2018 @03:14PM (#18162150)
Not only that, many factories are 24/7. So not only do workers have their weekends scattered throughout the week, but they have their shifts scattered throughout the day/night. The same for certain retail.

But many do not do this, as well. It all depends on what the production target of the factory is and how much throughput the supply chain has. I think those factors tend to determine this much more than worker satisfaction.

In my personal experience, I worked at a factory that would typically run two shifts, so 16-20 hours a day in production (variable), and the third shift overnight for maintenance/cleanup, 7 days a week. But if the prices were high enough for the product at the time and the supply was in place, it would run as close to 24/7 in production as possible.

Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by jpindar on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:21PM (#18161906)
Not in my experience, no. There are some that do, such as the ones running chemical processes that can't be stopped and restarted. The ones that are basically assembly lines putting parts together can stop on weekends.
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by petermcneeley on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:23PM (#18161914)
Well the most interesting part is that the preferences of workers are reflected in salaries in a free market economy. So its usually more expensive to have night shifts and more expensive to have workers work on the weekends because these are less desirable working times.
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by kungtotte on Sunday October 07, 2018 @02:32PM (#18161954)
In civilized countries it's legally mandated to pay more for nights and weekends.
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by monocasa on Sunday October 07, 2018 @03:03PM (#18162104)
It's not mandated in the US.
Re:For 11 Years, the Soviet Union Had No Weekends by kungtotte on Monday October 08, 2018 @12:47AM (#18164195)
I know...