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Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by gcc_programmer on Thursday October 04, 2018 @05:58PM (#18144023)
Why are people outraged before a sentence is pronounced? Are allegations now enough to convict someone? What happened to the West? Is this the beginning of the end ?
Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by tzs on Thursday October 04, 2018 @07:57PM (#18144644)
Part of the outrage is that the Senate first tried to not consider the allegations at all. Then they didn't listen to all of the evidence known at the time when they did hold hearings. Then they used a limited FBI investigation that appears to have skipped a lot of evidence.

Enough people who knew Kavanaugh in high school, college, and law school have now come forward with memories that contradict some of his recollections and testimony, especially about the frequency and severity of his drinking, that even if he did NOT do anything to Ford in high school they should raise at least sufficient doubts about his fitness for the Court on other grounds to justify more investigation.

Yet, the Senate majority is rushing to vote. What's the hurry? A couple years ago they said there is no problem whatsoever with the Court only having 8 Justices for an extended time (at least three Senators--Burr, Cruz, and Paul--said they were willing to hold it open for five years if Clinton got elected).

Surely they can take a couple weeks or even a month now and thoroughly vet Kavanaugh?

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by tomp on Friday October 05, 2018 @11:16AM (#18148778)
What evidence is there except testimony (i.e. the most unreliable kind of court-admissible evidence)?
Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by ck425 on Sunday October 07, 2018 @05:18AM (#18159634)
You have to remember the impact this has on society though. The vast, vast majority of sexual assault allegations are ignored and this has only started to improve recently. By not thoroughly investigating you send a message to victims (a shockingly large minority) that nothing is changing. Even if he is completely innocent (as he may well be) a thorough investigation is extremely important.

Of course, then there's his behavior while testifying and the contradicting accounts of his drinking.

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by tomp on Sunday October 07, 2018 @08:05AM (#18160163)
I disagree (with the first paragraph). I think we're sending a completely wrong message. The message we should be sending is, (1) protect yourself (i.e. personal responsibility, holds true for all members of the society, but unfortunately a highly controversial suggestion), (2) say "no" (if you boss asks you for sexual favours), and (3) report them to the police. Instead, we're promoting mob justice, lack of due process, lying (most of the false accusers get away with it unscathed) and sexism (believe women). I also wouldn't be surprised if this sets back the "equality movement" significantly, as more CEOs implement the "Pence rule" of not spending alone time with women (including employees).
Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by JoeAltmaier on Thursday October 04, 2018 @08:04PM (#18144667)
I'm thinking its time to pull the plug. Why are we looking to lower the bar for this guy? We can find somebody, easy, who doesn't drink like a fish and harass women. Maybe a woman judge would fill the bill?

We're not trying to fill this post with not-quite-the-bottom-of-the-barrel, and we should stop trying. Lets try somebody clean to start with? Look for the best, instead of the not-the-worst?

And this dude is not being 'unfairly treated', forget that. I don't get to be a Supreme Court Justice either. Almost nobody does. He wants to do public service he can go volunteer at a Senior Center. Hell, he can take up woodworking, I don't care. He should just get the hell off the stage and lets start looking again.

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by repolfx on Friday October 05, 2018 @02:14AM (#18146050)
We can find somebody, easy, who doesn't drink like a fish and harass women

No you can't. No judge the Republicans nominate will not be the target of some accusation by some woman at this point. If "the bar" is that no Democrat female accuses the nominee of something then then Supreme Court will be ...

... Maybe a woman judge would fill the bill?

Ah, now I get it.

Yes that's right. Make it impossible for a man to be a judge by insisting that any and all claims must be believed no matter how ancient, vague or implausible, to ensure that the court ends up packed with women.

If America continues down this path it will end very, very badly for women. We could easily end up returning to a time where women are disbelieved by default when they make an accusation of something. The Kavanaugh case has to be one of the clearest cases I can see of a frivolous politically motivated complaint (which is very likely false). Accusations of sexual assault are not tools to try and tilt the composition of courts.

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by JoeAltmaier on Friday October 05, 2018 @04:50PM (#18151632)
You can look for conspiracy all you want. I don't find it at all unusual to think this guy was everything he was said to be.

There are plenty of folks who have sterling records and stainless background, lets not kid ourselves. Pretending its persecution doesn't get you far.

There's no evidence its come to anything extreme. How about, try one more time? Is two people too many to ask?

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by tzs on Friday October 05, 2018 @02:29AM (#18146107)
> No you can't. No judge the Republicans nominate will not be the target of some accusation by some woman at this point

Gorsuch faced no such accusations.

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by pjc50 on Thursday October 04, 2018 @06:02PM (#18144063)
There's no sentence or prosecution here, it's a job appointment. I'm unclear why there is apparently only one candidate and we can't just have someone less controversial.
Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by throwaway5250 on Thursday October 04, 2018 @07:09PM (#18144461)
There were a number of candidates, and one was chosen by the head of the Executive branch. The Senate then gets to approve or deny the choice. This is all in the Constitution.

If I recall correctly, the bar used to be 60% for approval, by gentleman's agreement. A few years ago, the Democrats decided to discard that agreement (executing the so-called "nuclear option"). Now they're paying the price.

Ultimately the electorate will judge what was done. At the moment, it appears that they're leaning against the Democrats' strategy, but we'll know more after the mid-term results are in.

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by evanrich on Sunday October 07, 2018 @03:59AM (#18159388)
Except it was republicans and it was last year: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/04/06/us/politics/g...
Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by artificial on Sunday October 07, 2018 @04:31AM (#18159484)
Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by athenot on Thursday October 04, 2018 @06:10PM (#18144127)
Not quite any job, a job for life. There's not really an Undo Button like normal jobs.
Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by pjc50 on Thursday October 04, 2018 @06:16PM (#18144163)
Ah yes, he's being made a life peer with permanent political power.
Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by asveikau on Thursday October 04, 2018 @07:10PM (#18144469)
> There's not really an Undo Button like normal jobs.

There's impeachment, but the only case of that I'm aware of for a supreme court justice is from the 19th century.

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by AnimalMuppet on Thursday October 04, 2018 @07:01PM (#18144437)
Well, that's a matter of your starting assumptions. If you think the accusations are valid, then sure, go find someone else without the baggage, and let's nominate that person.

If you think that there's no evidence supporting the accusations, though, you might suspect that they're manufactured political outrage. (You might even see a pattern with Bork and Clarence Thomas.) You start to wonder if it's possible to find someone for whom the other side won't manufacture outrage. At that point, trying to find someone "less controversial" is a fool's errand.

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by josteink on Thursday October 04, 2018 @06:03PM (#18144070)
#metoo, SJWs and social media lynchmobs happened.
Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by dbt00 on Thursday October 04, 2018 @06:02PM (#18144061)
not a criminal trial, standards of evidence don't apply.

You just watched a federal judge commit several baldfaced lies and rant about political hits. That's not acceptable conduct for the supreme court, full stop.

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by fein on Thursday October 04, 2018 @06:25PM (#18144215)
"We just coordinated a partisan effort to accuse you of sexual assault from an incident no one can remember that occurred 35 years ago, and drag you and your family through the media mud and also call you a gang rapist for an added bonus. Why are you so upset?"

Do you expect the guy to be some sort of emotionless robot? This is classic Alisnky tactics combined with some form of infinite projected purity spiraling to raise the standard for an SC judge to inhuman levels. Thankfully, the right has finally come around to not caring about these tactics being employed by the left.

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by r00fus on Friday October 05, 2018 @02:03AM (#18146017)
I expect that whoever the candidate is, they have a bit more damn decorum.

This is a job-for-life. We can do better. Hell the guy who interviewed before (Garland) wasn't that bad.

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by Taniwha on Thursday October 04, 2018 @06:16PM (#18144158)
this is not a trial, it is a job interview - I wouldn't hire a potential employee who behaved the way Kavanaugh behaved in his interview, especially for this job
Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by woodpanel on Thursday October 04, 2018 @06:45PM (#18144353)
I hope it's not the end, but it's certainly a devolution.

Immoral moralization will draw anyone who's not going 100% with the program to eventually vote for the Trumps, AfDs, Farages etc.

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by FabHK on Friday October 05, 2018 @05:39AM (#18146829)
There's a big difference between

* criminal justice (where you mete out punishment, and want to act only against confirmed bad people (and in case of doubt, you don't act), and therefore you require very strong evidence against someone), and

* examining candidates for one of the most elevated positions in government (where you hand out power, and want to appoint only confirmed good people (and in case of doubt, you don't appoint), so fairly weak evidence against someone is enough.)

That's not really a particularly hard distinction to grasp.

Re:Rifts Break Open at Facebook Over Kavanaugh Hearing by ck425 on Sunday October 07, 2018 @05:23AM (#18159656)
This. In our industry we reject good candidates all the time, as we'd rather many false negatives than one false positives. This is the same. Hell in ways it's even more important. It's a job for life, with a stupid amount of influence.