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Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by simonh on Thursday October 04, 2018 @12:37PM (#18141433)
The problem for me is the fidelity of the simulation. It’s like running a simulation of the hardware of a computer on the computer itself. eeven if you devote all of the computer’s resources, the simulation will run incredibly slowly. If you run the simulation in a fraction of the real hardware’s resources, the simulation will either have to be extremely crude and unrealistic, or equally extremely slowly. At which point, why would anyone do this?

A simulation like GTA is only useful because it is staggeringly crude, but the goals of the simulation are commensurately staggeringly modest. I just don’t see how running a simulation of our universe, in our universe, at high enough fidelity to appear real even under detailed scientific analysis, could be useful or worthwhile.

I’d like to see a more credible and compelling proposal than hand waved ‘history simulation’. What’s the point of a history simulation that runs many times slower than real time? If it’s low fidelity, it will also be low accuracy, so why simulating at the physics level at all? I don’t see how it would give useful results.

Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by vidarh on Thursday October 04, 2018 @01:41PM (#18141961)
> At which point, why would anyone do this?

A game is a perfectly valid reason to do this. We're running millions of crude, low level simulations today.

> I’d like to see a more credible and compelling proposal than hand waved ‘history simulation’

Civilization is a crude, low level "history simulation" that doesn't try to be accurate.

Our world might be equally low level and crude by the standard of a future with vastly more computational capability.

Also consider that if you're in a simulation, then you have no basis for saying anything about the size or scope of the simulation: it's not a given many people are simulated at full fidelity, for example.

Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by Razengan on Thursday October 04, 2018 @10:57PM (#18145410)
> We're running millions of crude, low level simulations today.

Hardly. They’re nowhere near a simulation of a “reality.”

How does a game character “see” something?

By a global agent checking the position of that character, along with the position of other characters, and a bunch of other variables and conditions, then tells the character if it sees anything.

This is a far, far, far cry from everything being made up of particles, emitting countless photons every “tick”, and those photons being absorbed by certain materials, emitting electrons and chemicals that travel to a neuron....

Nothing inside a game actually generates sound waves, or infrared and other parts of the EM spectrum that can only be perceived by certain creatures and tools..

It’s not even a simulation of that, just an extremely simplified and filtered representation of the end result as perceived by us, that we find convincing enough for the context.

Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by vidarh on Friday October 05, 2018 @10:08AM (#18148222)
> Hardly. They’re nowhere near a simulation of a “reality.”

Misses the point. The point is that each such instance is an example of something where the fidelity of the simulation is restricted by technical ability, not desire. It answers the "why" by giving a concrete example of an area where we keep pushing the boundaries of simulation, because more fidelity gives more believable interactions.

We went from SimCity and Civilization with really dumb AIs that never seemed remotely real, to games like Sid Meyer's Alpha Centauri where the faction leaders had distinct personalities, to Sims with large sets of competing traits. And yes, they're still crude. But you have game designers out there today toying with individual neural nets for the NPCs to augment the generic AIs.

And keep in mind it's not a question of whether or not we can do this tomorrow, but whether or not *our descendants from now until the heat death of the universe - or the end of civilization - will do this. If they do it even once, it's 50/50 whether you're in the simulation. Every additional run reduces the chance that we're in the "real world".

Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by kernaussage on Thursday October 04, 2018 @01:02PM (#18141636)
Time is relative, our perceived time must not necessarily be the same as the one the inhabitants of the simulation feel.
Re:Scientists are looking for ways to put the simulation hyp... by b_tterc_p on Thursday October 04, 2018 @01:44PM (#18141989)
Additionally our perception of time as moving does not demand a simulation is moving. This could be a flat file, our experiencing of reality merely being a series of pre calculated frames with an illusory sense of self. The fact that we experience things does not mean things have happened. You can’t guarantee time hasn’t literally just started at even given moment. Every frame of existence may just be a single slice now opened up, and everything else you perceived as happening to you in some concept of recent time may be sitting in a database- not actually called upon ever.