News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by anonu on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @03:48PM (#18125068)
As a former trader/developer/quant I often felt that "automating myself out of a job" was my goal. If we could build properly architected systems that were self-healing when things went wrong, turned themselves on before the market opened, traded all day, made money and shut down for the night... then eventually my role would devolve into monitoring and ultimately into nothing...

In practise, achieving some sort of "steady state" or status-quo doesn't work for a few reasons:

1. Inherent system complexity ensures something always breaks. Human attention is always needed.

2. Markets evolve rapidly due to technology changes, regulatory changes and the very nature of markets: Strategies and ideas that worked in the past cease to work in the future.

Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by tynpeddler on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @03:53PM (#18125123)
A system that requires no outside intervention to perform its job optimally is equivalent to a solved problem. So quants will be out of a job once we understand how to perfectly trade on the stock market.
Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by TheAlchemist on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @03:57PM (#18125149)
Which by definition is impossible...

Once two different traders discover how to 'perfectly' trade, the game changes and as they say 'here we go again'

Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by munk-a on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @04:43PM (#18125533)
I disagree, the solution to remove stock market traders is to figure out a way to examine financial data and projections to such a fine degree that stock trading is no longer a sensible thing. Imagine a currency trader focused on USD & CAD, what would happen to their job if Canada decided to permanently pin their currency on the USD with a guaranteed exchange of .5 USD for 1 CAD, the markets surrounding arbitraging the currency would dissolve as .5 USD would always be 1 CAD (now in the real world there might be stability speculators, if Canada was viewed as politically unstable there might be a purpose to purchase .4 USD for 1 CAD, but ignore that for the purpose of the scenario).
Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by TheAlchemist on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @05:04PM (#18125694)
Well, you are making quite a lot of assumptions here:

- currency is very different from equities - while one could argue that a central bank deciding to peg it's currency to $ is a realistic scenario, it simply doesn't make sense for equities (an equity is basically a right for present and future earnings of a company - good luck 'perfectly' predicting that !)

- as you note, there would still be speculators, since there is always uncertainty. There are numerous examples of countries pegging their currencies and then when unexpected happens...

- traders / sales would still compete for order flow of the clients (and get the cut), so there would still be a game to be played albeit for smaller margins

Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by subroutine on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @08:51PM (#18126880)
To name just a tiny fraction of things that'd be required for a perfect stalemate between automated stock trading platforms (due to them all being able to predict the market with perfect accuracy):

* actions of any given platform doesn't meaningfully influence the market

* all have ability to forecast weather with 100% accuracy

* all have ability to perfectly predict human behavior

* all acquire the exact same news at the exact same rate

* all connect to the same exchanges with the same latency

* all have the same amount of capital to leverage trades

Simply put, there are incalculable ways for a trading platform to gain advantage over another, so I don't think this will be an issue in many lifetimes.

Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by anonu on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @08:19AM (#18129434)
>> * actions of any given platform doesn't meaningfully influence the market

Yes - this... Buying or selling even 1 share in the markets adds information to this giant calculating engine. Anything you do will alter the course of the future.

I've never seen a backtested strategy that didn't look great on paper. The moment you drop it into the market - you can take a steep discount to your expectations.

Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by tareqak on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @04:18PM (#18125344)
I have the same feeling that "automating myself out of a job" is the goal. Personally, I can't imagine anything else because it always feels incomplete (sometimes even dishonest).
Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by a008t on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @12:13PM (#18131724)
And the beauty of being a trader/quant is that once you come up with such an automation, you will capture a lot of the upside as the company will not want to have you leave for a competitor and implement a similar strategy there.
Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by Immortalin on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @11:07PM (#18127375)
Shameless Plug: https://KloudTrader.com/Narwhal

Doesn't make the decisions for you but manages the other 80% of the complexity involved in deploying a trading strategy.

Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by ekzy on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @08:50AM (#18129649)
Is it your product? The "get started" buttons don't work. As well as none of the links under "What does Narwhal Offer?"
Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by malhotra_chetan on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @12:34PM (#18131955)
Hi! I am a co-founder @ KloudTrader. The get started buttons don't work because we haven't launched yet. And the list under "What does Narwhal offer" are not links, they are just a list of features. Anyway we are launching this week, we would love if you could signup for our early access list(https://www.kloudtrader.com/#getnotified). We will notify you as we launch. Cheers!
Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by Immortalin on Saturday October 06, 2018 @07:21PM (#18157919)
Re:Coders Automating Their Own Job by Immortalin on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @03:17PM (#18133807)
Launch pains, system went down.