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Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by m-p-3 on Sunday September 30, 2018 @11:55PM (#18109935)
Would it be possible to content providers to send a URL to Google basically saying I made this, here's a timestamp to prove that you actually released it first, and whoever copies it and backdate it won't have any reliable proof they actually did publish it first?

Whenever I publish something I made, I submit the URL to the Wayback Machine so if it gets hugged to death at least there's a public copy somewhere else.

Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by Animats on Monday October 01, 2018 @03:06AM (#18110547)
There are many secure RFC 3161 timestamping services. You send them a hash, they timestamp and sign it and send it back. Some services are free, some cost money. Unfortunately, there's no way to express timestamps of web pages in a form Google understands. And it would only be meaningful for static pages, anyway.
Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by chii on Monday October 01, 2018 @12:26AM (#18110039)
> I made this, here's a timestamp to prove...

a timestamp can't prove anything. What stops somebody else from copying your content, but timestamping it earlier and submitting it as proof? How can google verify it?

In fact, google may have an incentive to allow this - since those scammy sites may actually be using google ads, while legit sites may have their own ad-nework which google may not be part of...

Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by nielsole on Monday October 01, 2018 @01:02AM (#18110162)
By having the timestamp be signed by a trusted party. Either a single entity or e.g. the blockchain
Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by smelendez on Monday October 01, 2018 @01:46AM (#18110307)
This is basically the purpose of copyright registration and filing your work with the Library of Congress
Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by cheeze on Monday October 01, 2018 @01:23AM (#18110221)
I agree that would be a potential solution but it's too far removed from reality to even be a consideration imo.

You'd need some sort of negative affirmation as well. "when I published this article, searching for it yielded nothing" signed by a trusted party would be a stronger statement. But no clue how you actually do that.

Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by Too on Monday October 01, 2018 @02:39AM (#18110460)
Even if the third party reliably proves your article is published october 1, what prevents the scammer from publishing an article with a fake date of june 21 on plain www-internet? It's not like the scammer is going to publish the article hash on any block chain.

Something like this can only work if all news publishers always publish the article hash and those that don't will simply not get crawled and not be valid as proof in DMCA takedowns.

Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by Natanael_L on Monday October 01, 2018 @11:05AM (#18113203)
Timestamp before you publish.
Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by jcoffland on Monday October 01, 2018 @01:01AM (#18110152)
Yes, but not with Google. This can be done with the Bitcoin blockchain. Before you groan, hear me out. You can submit a transaction which contains a hash of your content. Once it's on the blockchain you can prove that the content was created no later than the date of the transaction.
Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by cheeze on Monday October 01, 2018 @01:21AM (#18110213)
.. Which does nothing against a backdated article. What stops me from copying a NYT article and posting it to the blockchain a few hours after, claiming it's mine?

What makes the bitcoin blockchain good for this? The bitcoin blockchain is good for posting transactions within the bitcoin network and kind of a shitty solution for "a generic blockchain"

Why a blockchain at all? Why not just a merkle tree? Surely there is somewhere better than the bitcoin blockchain for this. CT logging isn't done on the bitcoin blockchain for a reason.

So sure, you can prove that something wasn't created after the date of the transaction (assuming you're using a CS hashing function), but for this to work in this specific context, you'd need every publisher to be posting transactions to this log.

If I post an article and post a hash to $genericBlockchainWhichIsReallyJustAMerkleTree, what prevents someone from copying, backdating, and saying that I copied them? That they didn't post to the log as well?

Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by dubhrosa on Monday October 01, 2018 @02:03AM (#18110348)
Agree that bitcoin blockchain is unnecessary, but isn't there some merit in the idea that all major publishers in a juristiction would opt-in to posting to a single chain? Given the potential legal cost savings it would seem to be at least somewhat feasible.
Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by cheeze on Monday October 01, 2018 @03:00AM (#18110518)
Oh absolutely. But I don't know how much of a "blockchain" that really is depending on how you define it. When I think blockchain, I think miners/proof of work/etc.

Is a CT log a blockchain? Because really what we're talking about here is a signed ledger which may be decentralized but very well may be centralized as well.

Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by jcoffland on Monday October 01, 2018 @03:17AM (#18110596)
> What makes the bitcoin blockchain good for this?

I can use it for decentralized time stamping right now.

Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by staplers on Monday October 01, 2018 @02:14AM (#18110380)
You should really educate yourself on the bitcoin blockchain and how it records time before making a fool of yourself by trying so desperately to dismiss it.
Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by akavel on Monday October 01, 2018 @02:36AM (#18110448)
Problem is, the evil SEOs backdate, therefore he needs to prove that the content was created no earlier - thus IIUC, blockchain/Merkle tree can't help him...
Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by jobigoud on Monday October 01, 2018 @04:10AM (#18110809)
Depends on who has the burden of proof? The evil SEO cannot prove his version was created earlier than his.
Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by prostoalex on Monday October 01, 2018 @02:16AM (#18110388)
Any third-party tool like PasteBin would work in a similar way and incur no transaction fee.
Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by jcoffland on Friday October 12, 2018 @02:48PM (#18203714)
There is no way to know that someone at PasteBin wasn't paid off.
Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by IncRnd on Monday October 01, 2018 @02:15AM (#18110381)
Are you saying that you'd be willing to host such a blockchain on your machine with timestamps and hashes for every article in the Internet?
Re:How companies use fake sites, backdated articles to censo... by Moru on Monday October 01, 2018 @03:25AM (#18110626)