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Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by moultano on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @11:08PM (#1809790)
So fork it?
Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by gamble on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @12:33AM (#1810000)
What's the point of forking something you can't install without voiding your warranty? Especially knowing that you can't redistribute your fork because average users won't hack their phones to install it, and even if they did your fork would lack essential applications like an email client or maps?

Android is no more open than Tivo, and in fact is the perfect example of what the GPL3 advocates were warning us about.

Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by snissn on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @01:51AM (#1810191)
you're confusing hardware with software, i can download, modify, sell, distribute, edit, sell the edits, and legally execute the code for any release of android, and couldn't even begin to do any of that for any apple OS. Chromium and android are free, safari was built off of a GPL code base, but OSX and iOS are locked down
Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by rimantas on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @04:38AM (#1810488)
You don't know much about OS X, do you?
Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by rimantas on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @04:59AM (#1810517)
http://opensource.apple.com/ Yes, you won't get everything from there. But where can I get a source for Google Voice?
Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by kelnos on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @06:25AM (#1810652)
I seriously doubt Google/HTC would really be able to deny a warranty claim for a bootloader-unlocked N1, at least for customers in the US. See the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. A manufacturer can't deny warranty coverage based on a user modification that has no bearing on the defective part.

If the trackball falls out of my phone and I send it in for warranty repair, there's zero chance they'll be able to successfully claim that the problem was caused by me unlocking the bootloader.

Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by carussell on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @12:55AM (#1810039)
Android is no more open than Tivo

Does hyperbole make you feel good?

Just what, exactly, are you proposing happen in the sphere of source code that's going to affect manufacturers' warranty process, really?

Open source doesn't mean everything is amazing and you won't have to deal with logistics and deployment issues. You have the code, but if you want to get serious and get more than a dozen installs, you should expect to do some heavy lifting of your own and take care of some of the business aspects of the situation.

Not everything can be solved by source and a code license.

Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by gamble on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @01:09AM (#1810078)
It isn't hyperbole. Like Tivo, Android can only be installed on hardware from manufacturers that are hostile to unofficial software. Most handset manufacturers go out of their way to make installing unofficial builds difficult. They all void your warranty if you try.

The fact is that there are no Android forks worthy of the name and never will be so long as hacking is required to install it. Open-source software that can never be installed is only 'open' in the most technical sense.

Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by davidw on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @01:54AM (#1810195)
> Most manufacturers

So put your money where your mouth is and buy from those who don't do that. You have that possibility with Android: Nexus One.

> The fact is that there are no Android forks worthy of the name and never will be so long as hacking is required to install it

I installed Linux for the first time in 1996, downloading a bunch of Slackware floppies over a 28.8 modem (IIRC), and it certainly took some hacking to install. Granted, the vast majority of people out there aren't like that, but it's kind of odd on a site called 'hacker news' to see people who seem oblivious to the hacker spirit, and what a group of motivated people can accomplish, given time.

The reason there are no (visible - I'm sure there are a few minor ones out there) forks of Android is because Google is doing a decent job, and mostly racing ahead of where forkers would be going on their own.

Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by rimantas on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @04:40AM (#1810492)
So Nexus One is not discontinued after all?
Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by davidw on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @04:44AM (#1810497)
http://www.google.com/phone/detail/nexus-one

"The Nexus One is available for sale in the US to registered developers" - and my guess is that that's not a particularly high barrier to entry.

Also, being in Italy, it gives me a "buy from vodaphone" link. Unlocked phones are much more common here in Europe, so apparently they're still selling them here: https://offerte.vodafone.it/nexus-one/

Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by carussell on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @02:30AM (#1810264)
It isn't hyperbole.

Horseshit.

i) There's a difference between it being utterly impossible to modify the software on the system, as in the case of TiVo, and "manufacturers [being] hostile to unofficial software". There is no shortage of Android devices that do allow you to run your own software on the system.

ii) TiVo was only compelled to release the modified kernel and a few GNU utilities that they shipped on the system, and that's exactly what they released. Can you download the source for the TiVo software itself? Here's a hint: the answer is "no". How much of the Android source beyond the modified kernel and GNU utilities is available? Oh, all of it.

Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by pornel on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @05:07AM (#1810527)
> How much of the Android source beyond the modified kernel and GNU utilities is available? Oh, all of it.

Google's Android apps (mail, maps) and marketplace are closed and only available for certified devices.

Re:Developer Joe Hewitt Tears Into Android’s Definition Of “... by caf on Wednesday October 20, 2010 @07:24AM (#1810750)
That sounds more like a complaint about the openness of the hardware than the software.

If it eventually becomes impossible to buy PCs that won't boot unsigned code, that will be a sad day, but it won't make open software any less open.