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Re:New York inmate's golf drawings lead to exoneration in mu... by iforgotpassword on Thursday September 20, 2018 @02:37PM (#18034561)
What about the privatization of prisons? It makes sense to lobby for setting the bar lower if you happen to run a prison. It also makes sense that you don't have any interest in helping your prisoners to have good chances of reintegrating, getting a job after release, but rather have them commit the next crime and come right back.

I think Germany is at the other end of the extreme; if it's your first conviction and it wasn't exactly cold blooded murder you almost always get away with probation, or a couple months tops. There were cases of people abusing children and only getting a year or two, which makes me furious.

And there have been cases in Germany where people were innocent too, of course. This is actually the most important argument for me against the death penalty. Since we know for sure that we make mistakes every now and then we should not carry out a sentence we cannot undo. Sure we cannot give the wrongfully imprisoned back their youth; but we can give them the rest of their life at least.

Re:New York inmate's golf drawings lead to exoneration in mu... by coryrc on Thursday September 20, 2018 @04:11PM (#18035103)
What about public prison guard unions campaigning for longer sentences, harsher treatment, etc?

https://theintercept.com/2018/08/14/police-unions-prison-ref...

https://capitalresearch.org/article/the-price-of-prison-guar...

Re:New York inmate's golf drawings lead to exoneration in mu... by fastball on Friday September 21, 2018 @10:04AM (#18039762)
Yes, I think privatization of prisons is generally a bad idea, for exactly the reason you stipulate, which is also what I suggested: the US has a mass incarceration problem, because we've set the bar way too low on far too many crimes.

But those people aren't innocent. If your state/country makes smoking weed an imprisonable offense, and you smoke weed, you're not innocent. Is that a ridiculous thing to imprison someone for? Absolutely. But you're not innocent. So yes, we either need to reduce privatization of prisons, or we need to remove their ability to have a conflict-of-interest in this regard. Either way, it's a problem that needs solving.

But again, I think this flows more into the "mass incarceration" problem/rate than it does into the "imprisoning innocents" problem/rate.

Re:New York inmate's golf drawings lead to exoneration in mu... by dragonwriter on Friday September 21, 2018 @10:36AM (#18039979)
> But those people aren't innocent.

Some of them certainly are; we get “beyond a reasonable doubt” wrong often enough with murder that there are fairly regularly news articles about exonerations after lots of resources from public interest groups dug out the truth.

Just because no one is spending the same resources—and even if they were no one would treat the results as newsworthy—on lesser offeses doesn't mean people aren't imprisoned wrongly for them (perhaps far more often, largely on plea deals, then is the cases for wrongful murder cobvictions.)

> But again, I think this flows more into the "mass incarceration" problem/rate than it does into the "imprisoning innocents" problem/rate.

Mass incarceration is a product of mass criminalization plus high imprisonment penalties on the books. That also produces a volume of criminal cases too high to handle without expedited process, and a heavy pressure tool in terms of high potential penalties that can be traded far down for guilty pleas. With many of the accused unable to afford more than the barest defense, that also creates a huge likelihood of significant imprisonment of the factually innocent on top of that which comes more directly from mass imprisonment plus the failure rate of even ideal criminal process.

That is, mass incarceration causes, rather than being a separate unrelated problem from, imprisonment of innocents.

Re:New York inmate's golf drawings lead to exoneration in mu... by fastball on Saturday September 22, 2018 @12:08PM (#18046531)
Which "expedited processes" would you be referring to? Are there particular processes you have in mind? As far as I'm aware, we've become more and more of a police state, but the actual system has remained the same: we require a trial by jury and sentencing by a judge, except in the case of a guilty plea, which a judge can still invalidate. In my opinion, that is still better than what other western countries have (in the UK / Denmark / others, there are many instances where a jury trial is not involved, even without a guilty plea).

I hadn't considered the pressure from heavy penalties on the potential for innocents to plead guilty, that's a good point. While I'll admit that's definitely a possibility, I'm not sure you can really claim that is actually happening without some sort of backing evidence? I'd love to see some numbers if you have them, even some good case-studies.