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Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by eloff on Sunday September 16, 2018 @08:44PM (#18002270)
Agreeableness in general is negatively correlated with career success. Have you noticed that Fortune 500 CEOs tend to be extremely disagreeable, to the point of psychopathy in some cases. At the risk of sticking my neck out, it's also one of the many reasons for the gender pay gap, woman are more agreeable than men. And you have to be somewhat disagreeable to stand up for yourself and demand a raise (or quit and seek a better paying job.) But on the average it's a relatively smallish difference and only accounts for a small part of the pay gap. The biggest component of the pay gap is the difference between mothers and non-mothers. I've heard it said that woman who are not mothers earn 95 cents to every dollar a man earns. But I don't have a source on hand, so take that with a grain of salt.
Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by DoreenMichele on Sunday September 16, 2018 @09:24PM (#18002447)
I've heard it said that woman who are not mothers earn 95 cents to every dollar a man earns.

What I have read is that in the US, women who are childless and without a man earn 98 percent of what men with comparable education and experience make. My stats are probably out of date, so 95 cents on the dollar may be more accurate.

Just suggesting it probably isn't terribly far off, from what I gather, having read up on such a fair amount over the years due to my gender.

Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by damnyou on Sunday September 16, 2018 @08:53PM (#18002299)
What if, and this might blow your mind, we tweak things so that agreeableness is rewarded more?

Society is constructed too adversarially for my tastes. More collaboration would be better.

Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by humanrebar on Sunday September 16, 2018 @08:57PM (#18002322)
Most people would put sarcasm on the adversarial side if the spectrum.
Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by nomel on Monday September 17, 2018 @12:04AM (#18003123)
You can’t be 100% collaborative, or agreeable. There almost always has to be one solution out of many that needs to be be perused.

How does the group select one solution, without being disagreeable? “Ok we’ll choose that one just because we don’t want to rock the boat” is not an effective way to select. Conflicting thought will always exist, from conflicting observation and experience in the problem space. Those with the better perspective have to push, often hard, to make sure the correct path, which others may not see, is selected.

At some point bad ideas need to be halted. I think this is what “disagreeable” is. How you halt them is another matter, but charisma, manipulation, or favors, which are often the “agreeable” approach, just means you’re steering the path using emotion. I think that’s separate from being “disagreeable”.

Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by Fordrus on Sunday September 16, 2018 @09:39PM (#18002521)
There isn’t some function we can feed a different argument here to value agreeableness more highly though. I generally agree, but that more collaboration would be good isn’t so much the question - the question is HOW these tweaks can be done.
Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by wpietri on Sunday September 16, 2018 @10:39PM (#18002770)
As a start, we could stop exalting and rewarding powerful sociopaths.

And slowly, I think, we are. E.g., the MeToo movement has forced some powerful sociopaths to face at least a small amount of accountability. Rich people at least occasionally go to jail if their crimes are egregious enough.

But it could be faster.

Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by damnyou on Sunday September 16, 2018 @09:49PM (#18002569)
I think getting more women into positions of power will be a start. Testosterone really does affect aggression.
Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by belorn on Monday September 17, 2018 @07:00AM (#18004759)
I wish people would stop spreading this myth and actually follow current science when calling out biological difference between women and men. Testosterone does not cause or create aggression. The link between testosterone has the same root as the link between emotional instability and estrogens, which is deeply seated into gender roles and gender discrimination.

Consistently when people look at aggression the same findings pops up. Men more likely to engage physical aggression, women are more likely to engage low-risk aggression, and women and men show to be equally likely to engage in verbal aggression. Unless Linus goes around and are physical violent with fellow developers then his gender has nothing to do with it.

Take a look at this nice lecture from a professor of biology, neurology and neurological sciences (https://youtu.be/2bnSY4L3V8s?t=30m17s). Recent studies into testosterone levels has shown that it has no relation to initiating aggression in both men and women. What it did find is that different level of testosterone impact how much of an defense behavior is triggered in response to social status threats. An interesting fact is that higher level of testosterone in women actually have a bigger impact compared to men, but men on average showed a larger response.

That might sound like aggression but here is the deal. If you create a social structure which rewards cooperation and social status is maintained through non-aggressive behavior then testosterone is correlated to lower aggression. That mean that it should tell you a lot about the community or company if testosterone correlate to aggression.

Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by DoreenMichele on Sunday September 16, 2018 @09:52PM (#18002581)
Perhaps more importantly, there is lots of evidence that exclusively male environments seriously amplify the effect and make aggression a fundamental part of the culture. Even very aggressive men tend to behave differently in mixed gender groups.
Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by jasonm23 on Sunday September 16, 2018 @11:18PM (#18002913)
Very true.

I think it's worth noting the inverse. That less aggressive men will become more competitive and aggressive over time in all male groups.

Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by mingee on Sunday September 16, 2018 @09:18PM (#18002417)
So how do we 'we' as the collective whole tweak things?
Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by damnyou on Sunday September 16, 2018 @09:50PM (#18002577)
Get more women into positions of power.
Re:Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off by nyberg on Sunday September 16, 2018 @10:48PM (#18002800)
They would have to get themselves in such positions thus this is yet another place where it sounds nice to say but in practice it doesn't seem to be working. Atrificially placing them would harm the work force yet them making their own way seems to be also rather difficult thus we're stuck in a wonderful situation were it's not exactly clear how to get there.

There's also the change that this is not the solution as certain positions do require some form of aggression unless you're willing to persuade the other companies in different countries from the one you propose the change in to do the same. Otherwise it may prove to be a disadvantage even to have a more "argeeable" person in such a position.

I would love for the solution to be as simple "get more women into power" but as it currently stands from my perspective, we have deeper issues to deal with where it doesn't matter if it's a woman or a man. I'm open to be proven wrong though.