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Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by burlesona on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @11:29AM (#17969748)
Federal zoning would be really difficult to get done constitutionally, but state level zoning wouldn’t be as hard and would have most of the same benefits, ie. reducing the power the nimbys.

However there’s no reason to think that would fix it all, transportation planning, design, and funding is almost entirely a state and federal affair, and the nimbys still torpedo all sorts of things that would be great for the region at the expense of a particular neighborhood or block.

To some extent though, that’s a feature of democracy, not a bug. There are a bunch of reasons we’re in the mess we’re in, and federal programs and subsidies contribute a lot. The threat to take away federal funding for places that don’t accept housing growth may be more effective than a brute force approach in the end, who knows.

Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by briffle on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @01:52PM (#17971223)
The threat to take away federal funding for places that don’t accept housing growth may be more effective than a brute force approach in the end, who knows.

I believe this is similar to the approach the feds used to move the drinking age to 21 [1], and the old nationwide 55 mph speed limit [2]. They didn't force states to create laws, just said "Federal highway funding will be drastically reduced to states that do not meet X" and magically, this was done.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Drinking_Age_...

2. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/07/four-ti...

Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by dsfyu404ed on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @04:32PM (#17972986)
Both of those are regarded as examples of the federal government acting outside its authority by a lot of people.
Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by ende on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @11:33AM (#17969789)
Right. There’s no need to take this “all the way to the top” (ie Federal). States can easily supplant the zoning powers of their local governments.
Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by prolikewh0a on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @12:30PM (#17970426)
Won't happen. The Nimbys have all of the money and can influence the votes in extraordinary ways. Look at Seattle, they won't budge and we have an enormous amount of single family housing. Our mayor is also nearly entirely useless as well, and seemingly only cares about sports teams.

The amount of propaganda that would be pushed out to crush any changes to zoning would be on historic levels.

Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by pcwalton on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @12:32PM (#17970461)
AB 2923, which overrides local zoning in order to allow BART to develop on its parking lots, recently passed both houses in California, despite NIMBY objections. And the Housing Accountability Act, which NIMBYs loathe, has long been law (and was even strengthened relatively recently).

Renters are a growing political force.

Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by mixmastamyk on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @12:42PM (#17970570)
> Renters are a growing political force.

Renters (often under rent control) are NIMBYs as well, don't understand or are convinced that supply and demand don't apply to housing.

Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by pcwalton on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @01:03PM (#17970809)
> Renters (often under rent control) are often NIMBYs as well

This is a very SF-specific view of the world. :)

Rent control is specific to just a handful of locations and is often subject to statewide restrictions (e.g. Costa-Hawkins). In general, renters are less inclined toward NIMBYism. This is especially true for the younger ones, who don't benefit as much from RC even in the locations where it exists. And even rent controlled tenants don't like the fact that they can't move.

Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by chaostheory on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @01:50PM (#17971208)
It applies beyond just California. It's in NY as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were more locations.
Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by mixmastamyk on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @01:26PM (#17971015)
I'm in Los Angeles, where it is a factor.
Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by burlesona on Thursday September 13, 2018 @12:35PM (#17979949)
Rent control is almost exclusive to California and New York. Ref: http://www.landlord.com/rent_control_laws_by_state.htm
Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by dragonwriter on Thursday September 13, 2018 @12:46PM (#17980076)
Your link doesn't support your claim, as it indicates rent control exists in D.C., several cities in Maryland, over 100 jurisdictions in N.J., as well as a smaller (but still large) number of jurisdictions in NY and almost a dozen in CA (there's also some more in CA listed in a heading of “other than rent control”, which seems likely to be intended to indicate something that is not rent control but raises some similar issues for landlords, but the links all appear to be dead links, so the actual specific meaning is less than clear.)

So, if it's “almost exclusive” to any pair of states, it's New Jersey and New York, not NY and CA.

(The source is also inaccurate in at least one respect, in that NY by the description given on the page and CA due to Costa-Hawkins both meet the criteria for a “Yes” in State Prohibits or Preempts Rent Control column, but both have blanks in that column.)

Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by ende on Friday September 14, 2018 @03:12AM (#17985274)
To clarify, I meant “easily” in terms of fewer legal barriers. Political barriers is indeed a whole other issue.
Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by chrisco255 on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @12:50PM (#17970669)
Depends on the state. Some states are pro-growth, some are not.
Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by xxpor on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @12:03PM (#17970146)
>States can easily supplant the zoning powers of their local governments.

Depends on how home rule is set up in that state's constitution.

Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by CamTin on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @12:11PM (#17970212)
Most state constitutions are relatively simple to amend. Certainly much easier than the U.S. Constitution.
Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by pcwalton on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @12:26PM (#17970384)
And they do; see the Housing Accountability Act in California, for example.
Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by TomMckenny on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @04:18PM (#17972797)
>To some extent though, that’s a feature of democracy, not a bug

Because of strategic (cynical?) choices over how voter registration is implement, tenants have far less power at the polls.

Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by burlesona on Thursday September 13, 2018 @12:41PM (#17980025)
Yeah I know, it’s far from perfect. This is the fundamental problem with democracy, you get power blocs that can turn out 51% of a vote and then legislate things that aren’t good for everyone else.

But my point is that, suppose you are a low income neighborhood and the state naturally wants to blow up your houses to put in a freeway — because they know they can’t get it put through the rich neighborhoods. Shouldn’t you still have the right to fight that?

Ex: https://www.strongtowns.org/shreveport/

Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by baybal2 on Thursday September 13, 2018 @03:49PM (#17981839)
There is a hack to it: abolish zoning altogether. Replace it with sanitary codes
Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by dionidium on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @12:33PM (#17970468)
> Federal zoning would be really difficult to get done constitutionally

Would it? I feel like this has Commerce Clause uber alles written all over it.

Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by zepto on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @06:43PM (#17974179)
How is zoning about interstate commerce?
Re:A proposal to roll back exclusionary zoning would make ho... by dionidium on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @08:46PM (#17974948)
"How is <x> about interstate commerce?" is a question that's been asked by reasonable people for many values of x that've been before the Supreme Court.

In other words, don't ask me. Ask SCOTUS. They've used the Commerce Clause to justify regulations on activities that were far less obviously about interstate commerce than zoning is, most famously in Wickard_v._Filburn, which restricts a farmers right to grow wheat on his own property for his own consumption, which, according to the court, is indeed an example of interstate commerce.

My statement, in other words, has nothing to do with my own interpretation of those rulings. It's merely an acknowledgement of them. It's not difficult to think of ways in which local zoning restrictions affect national commerce. And that's been good enough for the Court in the past, it seems.