News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by pixl97 on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:45PM (#17935705)
If you joined Google to make the world a better place, it's time to look for greener pastures.
Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by jrockway on Friday September 07, 2018 @01:25PM (#17936052)
Why, exactly?

The worst case is that Google is transforming itself from a web search engine to an app store, with AMP "sites" being the apps, and google.com search results being a directory of apps you can "buy" (i.e. read and pay with your attention, instead of cash).

This is certainly not a good direction for "the web", but it's not an illogical path to go down. People seem fine with publishing apps and being beholden to someone's walled garden. Apple does this quite well; people seem to prefer apps to opening a browser and visiting some URL. (As an example of how crazy things have gotten... I wanted to post to Instagram from my computer once, but there is actually no way to do it. You have to transfer your photo to your phone, obtain their app through a walled-garden app store, and THEN upload the photo via the app. What?)

I'll also point out that Google is not really the arbiter of what is and is not the web. Yeah, it's a pretty good search engine. It's the one I open by default. But they have less and less leverage over you every day. In Windows 10, I have a search bar in my taskbar. It does not use Google. I cannot change it to Google. If my interface to the web is a Windows machine, I have to go out of my way to use Google. (I just disabled Cortana completely because I don't use it... but I will still hit the Windows key, type something like "cmd" with the intent to run cmd.exe, typo it, and end up on a Bing page with random search results. Man Google is so evil for doing that to me... wait...)

Whether or not making news articles with ads proprietary (AMP) is good for the world really depends on who you are. If you are writing articles that are funded with ad views, and your readers decide "this loads too slowly, so I've lost interest" or "I know how I can make it faster, install an ad-blocker!", then AMP is great for you. If you are the average HN reader and think "my websites are never slow and ads are evil", then you will think the opposite. Depending on how you look at it, you can easily see working on AMP as changing the world by making independent journalism profitable and easy to read. Or you can see it as throwing away the open web, which is the paragon of all that is right in the world.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that it's not black & white. It's a change, for sure. Some changes are good. Some changes are bad. What you think should dictate whether or not you choose to work on it, because there is no path towards the world being great that everyone agrees on. If there was, we'd all be working on that. Instead, there is disagreement and people have chosen sides. You are on one side, but not everyone agrees with you; hence, there is another side.

Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by hv42 on Friday September 07, 2018 @02:44PM (#17936663)
Side Note: Instagram allows you to post from your computer if you use turn on the mobile emulation from your browser devtools :)
Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by UncleMeat on Friday September 07, 2018 @06:27PM (#17938143)
Do you believe that URLs are the optimal way of identifying web content? The web is wildly different from the early days where it was a series of documents arrange in a hierarchical manner. If we were designing the web today from scratch, URLs would likely not be the solution.

What is wrong with considering that there may be something better?

Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by gowld on Friday September 07, 2018 @01:05PM (#17935868)
Small, fast, user-friendly web pages sound like a better place to me.
Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by dmitrygr on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:46PM (#17935720)
Sure, please point to some that pay equally well and offer equally interesting coworkers and tasks.
Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by quickben on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:58PM (#17935811)
He's talking altruism, you are talking about personal gain. From the start these are distinct categories.

Sure, sometimes they overlap, but Google is past that point lately.

Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by 908087 on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:50PM (#17935749)
Those sound more like things that would be important to someone who joined Google because it paid well and offered "interesting" coworkers and tasks, not someone who (naively) joined Google to "make the world a better place".
Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by dmitrygr on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:50PM (#17935758)
If you really do not care about being well paid and want to change the world, Red Cross is hiring.
Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by Nursie on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:59PM (#17935817)
They are.

However there is a sliding scale here, and a lot of people will willingly take somewhat lower pay in order to work for places they consider reasonably ethical and transformative.

Pay is not everything, but neither is it nothing.

(My partner works for the Red Cross in the UK, they are a great organisation)

Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by Brockenstein on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:58PM (#17935808)
So is Hyperbole R Us.
[dead]
Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by sctb on Friday September 07, 2018 @01:10PM (#17935918)
Do you mind saying something we can learn from?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by meesterdude on Friday September 07, 2018 @07:35PM (#17938420)
I would expect basic morals to be par for the course.
Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by tomhoward on Sunday September 09, 2018 @04:17AM (#17944927)
It's an age-old discussion board trope to seek rhetorical effect by taking a vastly complex topic and by distilling it down to something simplistic like "basic morals", But all it really achieves is to make discussions boring or even depressing.

The best HN commenters come here for the opportunity to contribute something far better than that, and we all benefit when they do.

Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by oihoaihsfoiahsf on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:51PM (#17935760)
I don't foresee any likely path by which encouraging the adoption of a particular open source publishing technology is going to do serious damage to future generations.
Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by ForrestN on Friday September 07, 2018 @01:10PM (#17935913)
I’m not saying it is likely, but you really can’t see a path?

A company that clearly aspires to control the communications system that global society increasingly relies on for everything, that spends massive amounts to influence governments, that controls the visibility and economic destiny of the journalistic organizations that might hold them accountable... could decide to, ya know, do a lot of bad stuff?

Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by oihoaihsfoiahsf on Monday September 10, 2018 @08:45AM (#17951367)
> I’m not saying it is likely, but you really can’t see a path?

For all X, there is a path from X to great harm. Likeliness is critically important in evaluating whether X is still a good thing or not. I grant that your scenario is possible, but I consider it very unlikely.

Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by saagarjha on Friday September 07, 2018 @01:04PM (#17935861)
> I don't foresee any likely path by which encouraging the adoption of a particular open source publishing technology is going to do serious damage to future generations.

Wasn't that the entire premise of embrace, extend, extinguish? Sure, adopting open source technology is good, but it seems to me that Google's in the "extend" phase rather than being actually altruistic.

Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by scarface74 on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:52PM (#17935771)
You mean like HTML/Javascript/CSS?
Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by 908087 on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:54PM (#17935788)
You can't see any path upon which allowing a massive advertising corporation to gain majority control of and lead in the AOLification of the web/internet could be damaging to future generations?
Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by jphalimi on Friday September 07, 2018 @12:54PM (#17935781)
Telling Google is open-source is like telling MacDonald's is healthy because it has a slice of tomato and salad.

Android is not entirely open-source. Chrome browser is not entirely open-source. Google Web Apps are not open source. Google Search is not open source.

Re:The mysterious case of missing URLs and Google's AMP by gowld on Friday September 07, 2018 @01:04PM (#17935860)
Parent said AMP is open-source.

https://www.ampproject.org/

Do you disagree?