News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by sitkack on Sunday September 02, 2018 @01:25AM (#17895707)
Warm yourself with the tire-fire that is USB-C PD [1]

[1] https://twitter.com/whitequark/status/1035729916149604353

Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by gumby on Sunday September 02, 2018 @04:24AM (#17896164)
Oh boo hoo they enumerated an enormous number of corner cases, handled backwards compatibility, crappy cables, all sorts of things. It also reflects decades of back compatibility and painfully learned mistakes (consider mini-A) not to mention some weird pathologies (weird naming like hi-speed/ full-speed/ super-speed).

It sucks that the standard is so complex that a small number of design houses and consulting shops will end up with a de facto cartel of understanding the Sacred Knowledge, but nobody's stopping you coming up to speed by reading the whole spec and doing a lot of implementing. But it's not like you can build a solid TCP stack these days either simply by reading the original late 70s RFCs.

And you don't have to use this spec -- you can still use RS-449 if you think the USB spec has become overly complex. In fact I used that in a design only a few years ago!

Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by whitequark_ on Sunday September 02, 2018 @04:29AM (#17896175)
> But it's not like you can build a solid TCP stack these days either simply by reading the original late 70s RFCs.

I literally did this. It's called smoltcp (https://github.com/m-labs/smoltcp) and we use it in production as an lwIP replacement with great results.

Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by adiusmus on Sunday September 02, 2018 @05:39AM (#17896357)
‘You can’t.”

‘You can and I have running code”.

This is why HN is great.

Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by andrewflnr on Sunday September 02, 2018 @10:47AM (#17897162)
Does it work reliably on the open internet? AIUI, it's interoperability with all the edge cases of badly implemented protocols that leads to statements like GPs.
Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by kachnuv_ocasek on Sunday September 02, 2018 @04:32AM (#17896187)
I love Hacker News. I was just looking for this library to use in my embedded toy.
Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by etaioinshrdlu on Sunday September 02, 2018 @05:45AM (#17896368)
I think it would be cool if a project had a self-imposed token count limit. The project would never be allowed to grow more than X tokens long.

Then you can guarantee the project is small and haiku-like forever!

LWIP started off small, and it grew...

Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by whitequark_ on Sunday September 02, 2018 @07:50PM (#17899307)
The "smol" in "smoltcp" is mostly talking about the internal architecture and exposed API. For example, it will never support true zero-copy sockets, because the API burden due to restricting itself to safe Rust is too high.

I don't think any TCP/IP implementation is going to be "haiku-like", the protocol stack is way too messy.

Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by vatys on Sunday September 02, 2018 @02:06AM (#17895838)
the worst thing about having read the USB PD specification is having to live with this knowledge

Having done the same, I agree completely

Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by zhrvoj on Sunday September 02, 2018 @06:23AM (#17896441)
Yeah, good luck with 5A on such small pins an pcb tracks, after prolonged usage. I see many problems with existing 500mA delivery, increased contact resistance, cold solder joints, and so on. Insurance is a must have.
Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by jshap70 on Sunday September 02, 2018 @01:32AM (#17895734)
I like how you can ask it for the country code the power is from
Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by userbinator on Sunday September 02, 2018 @01:55AM (#17895808)
It's scary to consider that whoever added that "feature" was probably thinking of region-locking...

Before, I used to think that hardware specifications and protocols would be simpler purely because hardware people don't really like complexity and it would make implementation harder, and that was usually the case. Now it seems like elements of Enterprise Java have slowly creeped in...

The fact that the adapter has far more nonvolatile memory than it needs is somewhat unsettling, not just in the wasteful sense but also in the "hidden surveillance device" sense.

Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by sitkack on Sunday September 02, 2018 @02:18AM (#17895872)
Yes.

The spec includes cryptographic signatures for the whole signal chain for "authenticity".

http://www.siliconch.com/authentication.html

http://www.usb.org/developers/presentations/USB_DevDays_Taip...

Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by opencl on Sunday September 02, 2018 @08:13AM (#17896704)
And companies have in fact used this to make their devices only work with their own brand of chargers. I know HP has at least, because I have one. Does a pretty great job of defeating the "universal" aspect of the Universal Serial Bus.

In addition to preventing the use of third party power bricks, it also makes all of those USB-C docks with power passthrough useless.

Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by TeMPOraL on Sunday September 02, 2018 @03:55AM (#17896109)
My god. I never thought I'd see the day they DRM power.
Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by noja on Sunday September 02, 2018 @03:53AM (#17896100)
I am genuinely shocked. This is definitely not widely known.
Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by eitland on Sunday September 02, 2018 @03:23AM (#17896028)
And meanwhile Enterprise Java has become lightweight and simple (to use at least, - and the fact that TomEE exists implies that it possible to implement and support a compatible server even for a small company/team, as long as they know what they're doing.)
Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by etaioinshrdlu on Sunday September 02, 2018 @05:43AM (#17896364)
CS, EE, and computer engineering are going to be great careers for decades yet to come.
Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by abraham_lincoln on Sunday September 02, 2018 @09:32AM (#17896939)
Is EE really a good career choice, though?
Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by skavi on Sunday September 02, 2018 @09:05PM (#17899559)
umm, is it not? Literally 1 week into an EE major.
Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by sitkack on Tuesday September 04, 2018 @01:52AM (#17906916)
Learn to program, really well.
Re:USB-C Explorer – A development board to get started worki... by baybal2 on Sunday September 02, 2018 @06:05AM (#17896412)
>Warm yourself with the tire-fire that is USB-C PD [1]

A good idea is to not to let too many people on standard bodies.

Intel alone had more than enough clout to push the mass adoption.