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Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by dijit on Saturday August 18, 2018 @04:11PM (#17790384)
Linux these days is incredibly stable. As long as you have a laptop that has reasonably high quality (read: open) drivers. Intel graphics, Wi-Fi and a decent SSD/HDD from a known brand is usually enough to have a trouble free personal compute platform.

I have a precision 5520 and haven’t had a single Linux/hardware related issue, before that I had a Thinkpad x201s, and an x201 before that- and further back still I had a T400.

It’s been more than a decade since I’ve personally seen a Linux+hardware issue.

—

That said, the value of a MacBook is the build quality of the device and the application ecosystem. Try getting Skype for business and outlook working on a Linux laptop. :/

Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by danShumway on Saturday August 18, 2018 @04:36PM (#17790509)
I use Linux exclusively across all of my computers. The biggest problem is touch support - you can get drivers working fine, but the ecosystem is terrible. Open Source applications are an entire generation behind on basic gesture support. The best drawing apps on Linux don't even support pinch-to-zoom.

This is a solvable problem that I expect to improve, albeit probably not any time soon, and I'm still incredibly frustrated by it right now. Seriously people, just test your software, even a little bit, on a convertible device.

But... if you're not an artist, and you're not using a tablet, and you have someone who can even just help you get set up a little, you kinda, maybe, probably should be at least looking at Linux? Especially if you're using a computer as a professional.

It used to not be this way at all, but I think that modern Linux is generally way more stable than Mac or Windows, and is generally easier to work with for professionals. It's starting to reach the point where it may be easier for low-tech users as well, since you can get someone else to set up a computer with exactly the stuff you want, and then only install security updates.

It's a major selling point for me to be able to go to someone and say, "Hey, Ubuntu will support an LTS for 5 years. You won't need to change a single thing about your interface, and everything will just keep working."

Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by dijit on Saturday August 18, 2018 @05:03PM (#17790677)
But Apple hardware have no touch screens. I’m not saying it’s not an issue that Linux has poor touch support- I’m just questioning the validity of the concern; if you’d already decided to get a MacBook then you’ve made your peace with not having touch. Right?
Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by danShumway on Saturday August 18, 2018 @06:24PM (#17791166)
Um... possibly? I know artists that swear by the iPad pencil. In theory you could keep using that and then run Linux on your main computer. But in practice, I don't actually know if Linux support for iPad management is up to snuff.

I'm sure there's some kind of experimental driver support at least, but it has to actually be good.

You're probably not wrong. If you're looking at a new Macbook maybe there's at least good odds you already don't care about touch? In which case, it's not a bad idea to at least think about Linux, especially since you're already familiar with more than a few of the command line conventions.

Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by etaioinshrdlu on Saturday August 18, 2018 @06:17PM (#17791127)
The commenter seems to mean touch pads instead of touch screens.
Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by danShumway on Saturday August 18, 2018 @06:29PM (#17791193)
Both actually, now that you mention it :)

But no, touch screens are what I meant. There's also a scenario where someone is moving away from Mac specifically because they're looking at convertibles like a Surface Book. Maybe before this point they were doing drawing on an iPad, or a wacom tablet. Apple had and still has a huge userbase of artists.

Say that you're one of those artists trying to transition to (opinion me) a superior hardware medium for doing artwork, where you have more control over buying hardware brands you think will be reliable or flexible or portable, and where you can get the advantages of running a full-fledged OS on your tablet. You can buy a PC convertible and install Linux on it. But you won't be happy with how Linux runs on those devices (also opinion me).

Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by likeclockwork on Sunday August 19, 2018 @01:34AM (#17792773)
I run Arch on an X1 Yoga (2nd Gen) Krita has good touchscreen and stylus support.
Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by danShumway on Sunday August 19, 2018 @06:51AM (#17793712)
Krita does support pinch-to-zoom and it can distinguish between your stylus and your finger, which admittedly puts it above most other Linux drawing apps. But it does not (as far as I can find anywhere) support touch rotation. This makes it suboptimal for most tablets, especially mounted ones.

Driver support is great, but driver support is not the problem for any Linux touch interface, that's been a solved issue for some time - the applications need to catch up to the usability level of stuff like Clip Studio. I fully expect that it will happen some day, but probably not for a while.

That being said, thanks for the suggestion, I really appreciate it. I'm still running Linux on my drawing tablet, I'm just putting up with everything that comes with it. If you had managed to find an app that had slipped past me when I was testing all of this stuff, you would have just made my tablet experience way better.

Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by likeclockwork on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @02:53PM (#17812597)
You're right on driver support vs application support. There also aren't a lot of new applications in this space. I've been looking for a note taking/diagramming app with both stylus and touch support that will function as "a better piece of paper" in terms of being able to rotate and zoom on an infinite canvas; put down variable lines, grids, and dot grids; easily select and move or resize content; and I've been pretty disappointed by the offerings.

I think the use case is a little esoteric in our community, I've been seriously thinking about trying my hand at creating an application to address my needs when I get some downtime from my contract work.

Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by BuckRogers on Saturday August 18, 2018 @09:50PM (#17792065)
Desktop Linux has a few problems for a power user IMO.

Docking support is pretty awkward IME.

Multimonitor support is also "rough" to say the least.

They're pretty bad with touch/styluses.

Multi-GPU (while I'm against multiple system GPUs) support is problematic.

Power usage is also inferior, which bothers me as I prefer things greener than not, if possible. Not to mention the inconvenience.

If you're just utilizing a laptop like one would in the 80s or 90s, no problem at all, I agree. If you're trying to push the limits, hook up 3 monitors and expect it to "just work" or worse, "keep working" once you set it up.. dock/undock, use a stylus on the screen. Anything beyond firing up a terminal and a browser? Hasn't ever worked well for me. I prefer Windows10 from everything else, but also don't mind macOS (though it's similarly limited like desktop Linux is) and for a distro to just reach for and install, Linux Mint was impressive for usability. Antergos was my rolling distro goto but I prefer Mint's model of Ubuntu LTS but with continual updates to fix bugs. Constant rolling updates is not good IMO and neither is a (largely) code-frozen Ubuntu LTS release. Linux Mint nails the sweet spot there.

But yeah, other than Linux Mint, I can't really use it with how much I demand out of my machines. I consider myself a power user but I don't want to dig into the X11 codebase ever again when I have other things to take care of, some of that code hasn't been touched in 20 years (and that's a bad thing, because much needs updated).

Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by cygned on Saturday August 18, 2018 @04:25PM (#17790458)
Luckily, Skype is nothing I need to use. However, I would miss applications, namely Sketch. And I’d need to run Windows in a VM.

I am also not sure about the build quality. Despite the keyboard, MacBooks are very well designed and built devices.

Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by eropple on Saturday August 18, 2018 @05:12PM (#17790737)
They are. But so are a few PC lines. For my money, the ThinkPad T480 hits the sweet spot--the keyboard is reminiscent of the older rMBPs (but a little more throw, it seems), with a good-enough touchpad and enough battery life to last basically as long as I could ever see needing it.

(I'm not a fan of the XPS 13 or 15; the keyboard is a little clicky and the touchpad is not good.)

Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by noir_lord on Saturday August 18, 2018 @04:31PM (#17790490)
I have last years T470P (the i7-7700HQ/2560x1440@14" model) and it's phenomenally good with 32GB of RAM and an m2 SSD it screams, enough that I delayed my new development desktop at home from July last year til Ryzen 2 next year.
Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by KozmoNau7 on Saturday August 18, 2018 @04:34PM (#17790500)
So are Thinkpads, Elitebooks, Probooks, Latitudes and Precisions.
Re:The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic... by Xylakant on Saturday August 18, 2018 @04:50PM (#17790593)
> Linux these days is incredibly stable

I can’t subscribe to that. It’s ok, but it still requires permanent hand holding. Stuff randomly breaks with updates, for example since the last update I can’t scan any more. I also can’t print any more on my networked printer that’s connected to my mac server.