News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by aaronmck on Sunday August 12, 2018 @01:59AM (#17743131)
The article title seems like an overreaction to a really sad situation. We have to trust at least someone, and although he clearly had some issues (maybe recent), he wasn't out to hurt anyone or aligned with any groups that wanted to inflict harm.

Fighter jets were there immediately, people tried to talk him down, and he was lost. Nothing better could have been done all around. Yes, commercial planes could be keycoded or controlled in some other way, but I think most engineers in a controlled setting will agree this creates exponentially more day-to-day headaches than catastrophic situations it prevents.

Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by ghshephard on Sunday August 12, 2018 @03:43AM (#17743403)
The articles I've read said indicate that a "Taxi Capable" employee would be empowered to start up the aircraft, so it's not even clear whether security precautions would be relevant here.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by toss1 on Monday August 13, 2018 @01:32PM (#17751869)
Seems that it should be a two-level interlock, as is found on some high-end sportscars. The regular key allows for regular driving, but the Valet Key limits it to just over walking speed -- obviously sufficient to park & retrieve, but no good for joyriding.

I'm quite surprised that this was overlooked in post-9/11 security reviews.

Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by bobthepanda on Sunday August 12, 2018 @02:29PM (#17745667)
I'm surprised that taxi capable employees are left by themselves to do this kind of work. This could've been preventable had there been a second person in the cockpit as well.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by hueving on Sunday August 12, 2018 @02:38PM (#17745737)
Does this second person live in the cockpit 24/7? This guy got in an unoccupied plane.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by bobthepanda on Sunday August 12, 2018 @03:42PM (#17746059)
Do programmers just ship code to production without a second person to review code?
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by jandrese on Sunday August 12, 2018 @03:56PM (#17746121)
You probably don't want to hear the answer to this one.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by paulie_a on Sunday August 12, 2018 @04:23PM (#17746228)
All the fucking time. While there is an attempt to avoid and standard deployment procedures hopefully. Sometimes in an emergency you just get shit done and fixed for a client. I heard a mantra regarding this from a pretty big consultant at a major company: be bold be brave, deploy

I guarantee your financial information has passed through that product.

Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by stephengillie on Sunday August 12, 2018 @03:56PM (#17746119)
Are all peer reviews/pull requests equal?

A lot depends on the size, maturity, and customers of the group shipping code. One-person side/hobby projects wouldn't have a 2nd person to review the code. A previous employer initially had a "Deploy to Production" script that ran every 60 seconds, copying the Development folder to the Production folder - to make easier their testing in Prod.

But large publicly-held companies with more customers will often have auditors that require better controls over dev/test/UAT/Prod, and between developers and operators. Separation of Duties is essential to protecting Business Operations from disruptions caused by a single individual.

There should be some sort of lockout that requires 2 humans to put an airplane in the air - at least for major airlines, and could be mandated by law. This could range from a 2-key fuel shutoff for the engines, to different keys on the outer plane door and the inner cockpit door, to mandatory wheel boots on idle airplanes. And part of this would be a very good key management system, possibly with many physical keys managed by an airport or airline "key desk" - or maybe through electronic key-cards, RFID chips or key-fobs, or a smartphone app.

Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by paulie_a on Sunday August 12, 2018 @04:53PM (#17746361)
And even at Large publicly held companies the guy trying to implement a fix that matters is going to over ride those controls and get it out, the auditor might complain later but who cares. I know some devs that will do it at midnight while smoking weed at Fortune 50 companies. Sometimes you ignore the normal process and get it done and basically work around any locks/restrictions
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by sandworm101 on Sunday August 12, 2018 @04:40PM (#17746315)
Such lockout systems are a safety risk themselves should they err and limit functionality in the air.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by nickserv on Sunday August 12, 2018 @04:13PM (#17746195)
What do you mean "ship" to production? Isn't the normal thing to do to modify the code directly on the production server using FileZilla on port 21?
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by crankylinuxuser on Sunday August 12, 2018 @04:08PM (#17746173)
Yes. My previous job did precisely that.

We were responsible for probably 80% of the academic internet. And those Mloc perl5 programs were terrifying to work with.

Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by cncrnd on Sunday August 12, 2018 @03:22AM (#17743355)
Hmm I don't think it's that much of a headache to have some PIN code provided to pilots as an additional measure.

These planes aren't cheap, even a small personal jet is in the low millions. A Boeing 747 or similar is in the hundreds of millions.

Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by SmellyGeekBoy on Sunday August 12, 2018 @05:04AM (#17743610)
Airline engineering employees need to power on planes, fire up various systems to test, and even move them around. It's absolutely routine. All the reports I've seen seem to suggest that this was one of those employees. So it seems reasonable to assume that he would have had the PIN or "key" or whatever in this case anyway.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by Shivetya on Sunday August 12, 2018 @10:12AM (#17744434)
valet mode for aircraft. of course we can never eliminate the risk but perhaps a two key mode similar to launch controls for missiles to do anything with a plane other than low power movement?
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by acct1771 on Sunday August 12, 2018 @12:11PM (#17744985)
You put so much (undeserved) faith in the missile launching crowd...000000 comes to mind.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by stephengillie on Sunday August 12, 2018 @04:19PM (#17746213)
Other industries have controls that prevent simple passwords from being used. Who audits the missile control groups?
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by paulie_a on Sunday August 12, 2018 @08:58PM (#17747373)
The all zero thing goes back a while when someone in the military was told to put launch codes in and defiantly made them 0. Because God forbid there should be any protection on the most deadly device ever created by man.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by donaltroddyn on Sunday August 12, 2018 @05:51AM (#17743703)
Whatever system that you put in place would have to never (or very close to never) have a false negative during normal aircraft operation.

One other commenter here mentions a simple ignition key would have prevented this incident, but there's been at least one major ignition system flaw in cars that caused multiple deaths ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch... ), and the consequences of a failure causing loss of control to a passenger aircraft far outweighs that in a car.

Given the very low rate of unauthorised takeoffs of passenger aircraft, and that this case was an insider who may have been able to gain access to keys/codes anyway, is introducing introducing a new system to aircraft justified?

Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by h4b4n3r0 on Sunday August 12, 2018 @03:31AM (#17743373)
Yeah, a freakin _ignition key_ would have made this whole thing impossible.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by Toenex on Sunday August 12, 2018 @03:36AM (#17743385)
Unless of course as an employee he had access to one.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by h4b4n3r0 on Sunday August 12, 2018 @03:44AM (#17743405)
Well, require that only pilots have access to the key then.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by pjc50 on Sunday August 12, 2018 @05:39AM (#17743675)
.. which they will promptly hand over to the engineers for maintenance purposes, just as people do with their car keys.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by h4b4n3r0 on Sunday August 12, 2018 @06:12AM (#17743751)
Create a “valet key” which lets the engineer to do what he/she needs to do but doesn’t allow to take off.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by adrinavarro on Sunday August 12, 2018 @03:59AM (#17743437)
And mechanics.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by cookingrobot on Sunday August 12, 2018 @03:58AM (#17743435)
Or let air traffic control diasable any plane while it’s taxiing.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by Twisell on Sunday August 12, 2018 @04:20AM (#17743492)
I’m not sure having a remote control kill switch on an airplane is the kind of backdoor that improve security (if any backdoor can, which I’d doubt).
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by speedplane on Sunday August 12, 2018 @04:24AM (#17743502)
The current "kill switch" technology for rouge airplanes is an F-18 with a few Sidewinders.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by iforgotpassword on Sunday August 12, 2018 @04:43AM (#17743547)
Sounds a lot safer to me and sufficient as well.
Re:Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Securit... by bufferoverflow on Sunday August 12, 2018 @04:06AM (#17743460)
That's dangerous. Imagine this remote control gets hacked and planes start getting disabled in mid air, or even while trying to take off.

An hard to copy ignition key makes a lot more sense.