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Re:On Apple's Love Affair with Swift by josephg on Saturday August 11, 2018 @09:41AM (#17739630)
That’s why LLVM is such a great idea - any llvm language can interoperate with any other, within the same binary, with no overhead. Apple isn’t throwing away their C code any time soon either. LLVM provides a smooth upgrade path via mixed language binaries.

I suspect that the move to swift would never have happened without LLVM. And I wouldn’t be surprised if llvm’s cross language compatibility was specifically attractive to Apple because it let them have their cake and eat it too - write a new language but keep legacy C code whenever that’s the best option.

Re:On Apple's Love Affair with Swift by masklinn on Saturday August 11, 2018 @11:38AM (#17740086)
> That’s why LLVM is such a great idea - any llvm language can interoperate with any other, within the same binary, with no overhead.

I don't believe LLVM provides a stable cross language ABI, and AFAIK languages just use regular FFI (via the C ABI) to communicate with one another, regardless of them being implemented on LLVM or not.

Re:On Apple's Love Affair with Swift by ihnorton on Saturday August 11, 2018 @01:32PM (#17740636)
> I don't believe LLVM provides a stable cross language ABI, and AFAIK languages just use regular FFI (via the C ABI) to communicate with one another

Provided the compilers generate compatible versions of LLVM IR, then cross-language calls can be done at the IR level. See github.com/Keno/Cxx.jl

IIUC Swift already uses clang to load module maps in order to expose and call Objective-C, and they plan to do something similar with C++ (no link handy but I think there is an issue or enhancement proposal about it).

Re:On Apple's Love Affair with Swift by slavapestov on Saturday August 11, 2018 @08:46PM (#17742327)
Yeah, Swift’s C interop goes further than most typical FFIs because it actually calls into Clang internals to read headers, lay out structs and form calls. C and Objective-C types, functions and methods are mapped to Swift definitions, by directly looking at the Clang AST.
Re:On Apple's Love Affair with Swift by matheusmoreira on Sunday August 12, 2018 @01:28PM (#17745353)
> C ABI

Is there really such a thing? I thought the ABI was dependent on the operating system and compiler.

I agree that C is unique in it's ability to generate programs that can be interfaced with from any language. This also seems to apply to older languages like Fortran and Pascal, for some reason. Higher level languages are an ABI nightmare; seriously doubt anyone will ever dynamically link against a C++ library at runtime and call a method on a C++ object from any language that isn't C++.

Re:On Apple's Love Affair with Swift by DannyBee on Saturday August 11, 2018 @03:17PM (#17741096)
1. As someone says, LLVM does not have a cross-language ABI, so no, it's not as easy as you think. It makes some things nicer, some things harder.

2. Prior to LLVM, there were much more complete attempts at this (that were even more successful, actually!)

Re:On Apple's Love Affair with Swift by earenndil on Saturday August 11, 2018 @09:15PM (#17742429)
As the siblings have mentioned, llvm doesn't really do this. What does, though, are the jvm and .net, although those aren't really oriented towards low-level c programming.
Re:On Apple's Love Affair with Swift by pjmlp on Saturday August 11, 2018 @10:12AM (#17739740)
It is a great idea, but not an innovative one, already PL/8 for IBM RISC research used a similar approach.