Re:Christopher Domas: Hardware Backdoors in X86 CPUs
by nrdgrl on Thursday August 09, 2018 @06:56PM
(#17729261)
I wonder if any of these chips ended up in electronic voting machines?
Re:Christopher Domas: Hardware Backdoors in X86 CPUs
by jacobush on Thursday August 09, 2018 @07:42PM
(#17729518)
That is one place you don't need hacking CPUs to hack the result. Plain files vetted by no one etc etc.
Re:Christopher Domas: Hardware Backdoors in X86 CPUs
by ChuckMcM on Thursday August 09, 2018 @07:15PM
(#17729373)
I would not be surprised, it was one of the earlier low TDP but x86 compatible chips.
Re:Christopher Domas: Hardware Backdoors in X86 CPUs
by Dylan16807 on Friday August 10, 2018 @12:02AM
(#17730597)
> ... and embedded in ATMs with a 20 year life span.
Privilege escalation is not a problem on ATMs.
> It pains me terribly every time I power up the Agilent signal analyzer in the lab and it boots Windows XP on its Pentium III chip.
Why? Just treat it as you do most hardware, under full control of whatever you attach it to. Zero security present, zero security needed.
Re:Christopher Domas: Hardware Backdoors in X86 CPUs
by jacquesm on Friday August 10, 2018 @04:10PM
(#17736373)
> Privilege escalation is not a problem on ATMs.
Re:Christopher Domas: Hardware Backdoors in X86 CPUs
by ChuckMcM on Friday August 10, 2018 @06:46PM
(#17737242)
I expect that most people miss that ATM manufacturers continue to put security holes in ATMs (https://www.wired.com/2014/11/nashville/) one of the 'fixes' was to make bank access unprivileged. But wait, if I have an escalation vulnerability ...
Re:Christopher Domas: Hardware Backdoors in X86 CPUs
by Dylan16807 on Friday August 10, 2018 @07:25PM
(#17737405)
Sigh. Okay let me rephrase. The thing normally called "privilege escalation", where software that is executing on a machine escapes a sandbox or gets into kernel mode, is not a problem on ATMs.
That page is talking about pressing keys to exploit software flaws in already-privileged software, which is an extremely separate topic.
Re:Christopher Domas: Hardware Backdoors in X86 CPUs
by jacquesm on Friday August 10, 2018 @07:30PM
(#17737424)
Privilege escalations come in many shapes and sizes, it is not limited to software escaping a sandbox or to get into kernel mode, it is also explicitly used to refer to users of a system managing to leverage their normal access into a more powerful one.
Re:Christopher Domas: Hardware Backdoors in X86 CPUs
by Dylan16807 on Friday August 10, 2018 @07:45PM
(#17737483)
But in context I was clearly talking about the former, because the topic is software exploiting CPU backdoors.
Re:Christopher Domas: Hardware Backdoors in X86 CPUs
by ric2b on Sunday August 12, 2018 @07:48AM
(#17743959)
This can be combined with another exploit that allows the user to execute user code to achieve root on the ATM, so it's still troubling.
Re:Christopher Domas: Hardware Backdoors in X86 CPUs
by tinus_hn on Friday August 10, 2018 @03:49AM
(#17731435)
I don’t think these ATMs run a lot of untrusted code, and this is of course easily patched by clearing the bit during the boot sequence.
It would be much more of a problem if these were consumer machines running untrusted code.
Your comment sounds a bit dismissive of the vulnerability with an implication that it would never be a problem. If that was not what you were implying I apologize. It is critical that even "old" chips vulnerabilities be understood so that one can understand the risks. It pains me terribly every time I power up the Agilent signal analyzer in the lab and it boots Windows XP on its Pentium III chip.