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Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by moomin on Thursday August 09, 2018 @06:08PM (#17728994)
There are an infinite number of bad ideas in the world. No-one’s life would be improved by hearing them all.
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by devtul on Thursday August 09, 2018 @08:15PM (#17729692)
In Saudi Arabia letting women drive was/is deemed a bad idea. Some cultures think it is a bad idea to not cut off the clit of girls. There are Islamic scholars that will go at length on how you should discipline physically your wife, for her own good. In those places/societies opinions against all of it would be considered wrong ideas. If you stiffen speech, you don't just stop the society from regressing, you also rob it from progress.
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by anigbrowl on Thursday August 09, 2018 @08:54PM (#17729857)
Yes, proposing that a group have more rights that they don't currently enjoy is just like saying a group should be suppressed and have their rights curtailed.
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by lmm on Friday August 10, 2018 @06:23AM (#17732051)
It is. The only point where "rights" matter is when two groups of people are in conflict, and each side will always be able to express what they want as a "right" (e.g. making it illegal for other people to describe you in their own terms is your "right to exist").
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by anigbrowl on Friday August 10, 2018 @02:47PM (#17735821)
That doesn't follow. If group A enjoys a right and group B does not, and that right is extended to group B, Group A no longer enjoys the same advantage over Group B but hasn't suffered any limitation of rights. To use the supplied example, if you're a male driver in Saudi Arabia your driving privileges are unimpaired by the novel legality of female drivers.
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by webmaven on Wednesday August 15, 2018 @06:32PM (#17770321)
> if you're a male driver in Saudi Arabia your driving privileges are unimpaired by the novel legality of female drivers.

Your right to drive is unimpaired, but the privilege of driving that you enjoy most definitely is.

Most movements to expand rights to new groups are opposed by those who would thereby experience a diminution of their privelege (which is always relative).

This is also why you have the wealthy so often opposing policies that will create more wealth for everyone including themselves, because those same policies reduce their relative advantages.

Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by lmm on Friday August 10, 2018 @06:45PM (#17737236)
Group A will always find some way to define the change as them losing a "right". E.g. in the US if you propose to extend the right to life that born people currently enjoy to the unborn, many born people will claim this is a violation of their rights.
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by 0x8BADF00D on Thursday August 09, 2018 @09:25PM (#17729990)
People don’t get more rights than others. All individuals get the same unalienable rights, and that is a universal truth which is self-evident.
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by zaarn on Friday August 10, 2018 @04:16AM (#17731546)
How is this "universal truth self-evident"?

I'd love you to show me that there is a repeatable and measurable experiment that determines that as a fundamental function of the universe, people should have equal rights.

Personally, I don't believe that (the fact it's a universal truth) to be true, morals and ethics are a subjective topic and stuff like "everyone should have equal right" is something that most people including me can agree on fairly easily. Other people might not agree.

Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by jazzyjackson on Friday August 10, 2018 @07:40AM (#17732402)
The founders held those truths to be self-evident, but in some contexts (say , outside of educated 18th century gentry) they must be argued.
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by yontherubicon on Friday August 10, 2018 @06:46AM (#17732165)
This doesn't work without a universal moral law, an assumption now deprecated in many circles.
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by anigbrowl on Thursday August 09, 2018 @11:26PM (#17730480)
I disagree, but in any case you seem to be disregarding the context of my comment above, without which it is empty of meaning.
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by 0x8BADF00D on Thursday August 09, 2018 @09:32PM (#17730026)
Maybe not. But is one’s life diminished by hearing bad ideas? I don’t think so. For instance, the idea that the Earth is flat is laughable. But my life doesn’t deteriorate nor improve based on that idea. We can all agree it’s a stupid idea, laugh at it, and move on.
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by jgh on Friday August 10, 2018 @06:48AM (#17732175)
Not all bad ideas are so easily brushed off as being "totally laughable". For example a common and particularly insidious one that gets a lot of "logical" people who think of themselves as good critical thinkers is tying IQ to genetics. This leads people down the path of [IQ is largely determined by genetics] => [X impoverished group has a lower IQ] => [Because of their IQ they are impoverished] => [White people are superior].

Looking at that line of thinking it's ridiculous, there are assumptions and a gross misunderstanding of correlation and causation and confounding factors. But if you are not educated enough to see the problems in those arguments (which I think would be a higher level of education required than believing in flat earth) or if you are a little bit inclined to let someone walk you down a "logical" path of fallacies then it's easy to make that leap. And that's an easy argument for a white nationalist to make. It's a lot less easy for someone to refute it.

Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by charlesism on Friday August 10, 2018 @05:44AM (#17731905)

    > But is one’s life diminished by hearing bad 
    > ideas? I don’t think so
You may think that it's harmless to thousands of racist theories floating around the internet. I don't. I think it plants seeds of doubt. "Group X must have done something to make so many people hate them" etc.

Let's say I publish an article alleging you murdered your previous girlfriend/boyfriend. It goes viral. A month later, the truth airs! Someone publishes a follow-up explaining that you are innocent. Do you think your life will just go back to normal?

Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by snowwrestler on Friday August 10, 2018 @01:11AM (#17730840)
Depends on the bad idea.

If the bad idea was that you and your family should be killed or forcibly expelled from your jobs and homes, and you heard it discussed seriously and frequently by your neighbors, police officers, and elected officials--yeah, I think that might diminish your quality of life in some ways.

Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by CaptainZapp on Friday August 10, 2018 @06:40AM (#17732134)
You don't even have to go that far.

Look at anti-vaxxers. A small group of hysterical "do-gooders" educated by bad ideas are doing a lot of harm and if it's up to them would reverse the arguably greatest achievement in medical history.

Kids actually get killed thanks to the efforts of those assholes.

Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by spicymaki on Friday August 10, 2018 @06:45AM (#17732158)
That is clearly untrue. History is just full of bad ideas that has caused the death of untold numbers of people. The problem is that we can’t all agree and people do not move on.
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by foxylad on Thursday August 09, 2018 @10:12PM (#17730193)
Bad ideas certainly can diminish quality of life. Firstly because we can't all agree that they are stupid and move on - the flat earth trolls are actually gaining momentum, and we've been re-litigating creationism for over a hundred years. This re-arguing ties up an enormous amount of energy that we could spend far more productively.

And secondly, when the masses weary of arguing nonsense ideas, there is a danger of them becoming acceptable. If we all stop arguing when the trolls repeat yet again that jews/immigrants/women/gays are sub-human and should be removed, some people will take that silence as assent and the violence begins.

So what we need is some kind of snopes for ideas, where our brightest and best could weigh good and bad ideas, and the rest of us could just point to their results. But wait - that's what a university* is! And it's no coincidence that the trolls direct their fiercest fury at academics.

*Trump University excepted.

Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by toasterlovin on Thursday August 09, 2018 @11:41PM (#17730537)
Is there any evidence that there are more people who believe crazy things than before? It seems way more likely to me that there is a portion of the population who are nuts and basically cycle through various conspiracy theories.
Re:Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are ... by michaelcampbell on Friday August 10, 2018 @09:27AM (#17733000)
Depends on how much your time is worth either refuting, or investigating, any claim which may or may not be bad.