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Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by titzer on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @06:59AM (#17714784)
This is horrible. Instead of bail, they should just have steeper fines for failure to appear and yet on the flipside the same guarantees afforded to jury duty as far as employment (i.e. can't be fired for having to appear in court). That would allow poorer people to keep their jobs and still be present for court dates. Flight risk is really not as high as the system is designed for.
Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by dragonwriter on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @09:55AM (#17715968)
> Instead of bail, they should just have steeper fines for failure to appear and yet on the flipside the same guarantees afforded to jury duty as far as employment (i.e. can't be fired for having to appear in court).

There's already a fairly well proven alternative to cash bail used in D.C. and some other jurisdictions: if someone is bailable after assessment for flight risk, etc., they get appropriate conditions for pre-trial monitoring and supervision, as bail terms, with no cash payment.

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by Ntrails on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @07:15AM (#17714875)
The problem with a fine for failure to appear is that you have to find the person to make them pay. The assumption being that if you're skipping out on a court case you're probably doing so with the intention of never attending, and a fine they can't enforce isn't going to make a difference.

The logic behind bail is simple, you either show up to court or lose money that you cannot afford to lose. The incentives make sense at first glance.

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by kasey_junk on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @07:27AM (#17714937)
The incentives for prosecutors though are off. They use high bail to leverage plea bargains & are judged on how well they accomplish that. Objective, non cash based determination of pretrial risk makes way more sense when judged through that lens.
Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by Ntrails on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @07:32AM (#17714960)
Completely agree, the article makes a nice coherent argument for why it's actually created a horrific situation for those near the poverty line.
Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by fastball on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @08:17AM (#17715233)
Bail bondsmen?
Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by deelowe on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @10:46AM (#17716382)
I don't think people realize that when you pay a bondsman, you don't get that money back. Basically, you pay a bondsman to post bail for you. The bondsman then assumes the flight risk. Assuming you don't skip out of town, the bondsman gets to keep the money. Additionally, most jurisdictions don't allow you to post your own bail until certain conditions are met, but a bondsman can post bail immediately. This results in most people who are arrested having to pay a bondsman unless they are ok with sitting in jail a couple of days. I found myself in this exact situation when a clerical error caused my license to be suspended. I had to pay $700 just so I could go to work the next day. I never got that money back despite all charges being dropped. If I hadn't have had the $700 to pay the bondsman, I would have been stuck sitting in jail until I could have met with the right person (prosecutor?). This was going to take at a minimum, 2 days. Imagine being poor and in this situation.
Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by dvtrn on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @11:09AM (#17716557)
Similar situation where having $25 saved my butt from having to sit in jail three states away from where I lived after a petty drug possession arrest (a little baggie of cannabis fell out of my glove compartment while scrounging for an insurance card).

It's a pretty long story, but ultimately I paid the last $25 I had in my pocket to a clerk, and was released upon my own recognizance (Personal Recognizance). Ultimately ended up with community service; the case itself was rather interesting because the amount of product in my possession was so low the lab had trouble even verifying there was anything there. Officially charged with possessing 0.02g. You read that right. Less than a 10th of a gram.

For that and a couple of other reasons, I got pretty lucky getting out of there the way I did, and getting back home.

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by logfromblammo on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @12:45PM (#17717358)
Keep your registration and insurance card in the door pocket or clipped to your sun shade, and keep your glove box locked while driving. If you must transport contraband, keep it in a closed, opaque container without identifying markings on the outside.

If you have current insurance, but can't find your proof of insurance card during the stop, just say loudly and clearly that you're insured with [YOUR INSURER], take the ticket, and mail a copy of your insurance information to the prosecutor afterward. If the prosecutor won't drop the charge, plead not guilty and request discovery for the squad car camera recording and all the information the cop had available about you or your vehicle from their in-car computer at the time of the stop.

In all likelihood, the cop's in-car computer already showed whether you were truthful about being insured or not, and they just continue to demand paperwork because it's an easy way to issue tickets that usually don't get contested. It's a money game, and it encourages the justice system to prey on those who can least afford to fight back.

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by Broken_Hippo on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @05:12PM (#17719528)
It can go even further than that: In some areas, the courts can require you to use a bondsman. You simply cannot pay it yourself. You either pay the bondsman or you sit in jail. There is no other choice.
Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by mschuster91 on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @07:06AM (#17714819)
> Flight risk is really not as high as the system is designed for.

The system is rigged against the minorities. Look why cannabis was criminalized in the first place - to target blacks and hippies (https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-...). As a politician, keep as many of 'em in jails as you can, thus showing the white population you're "tough on crime" and at the same time filling the coffers of your private prison operator friends with state cash for the jailing.

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by StreamBright on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @07:25AM (#17714925)
This white against minorities narrative breaks down once you understand that ~80% of minorities are DNC voters[1] and Bill Clinton was the number one guy who f*ed them over the most with the infamous Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994[2].

1. http://www.people-press.org/2018/03/20/1-trends-in-party-aff...

2. In a speech at an NAACP convention in Philadelphia in July, Clinton acknowledged that tougher incarceration provisions in the bill were a mistake. “I signed a bill that made the problem worse,” Clinton said. “And I want to admit it.”

I think this issue has many different angles than just the usual whites vs. minorities.

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by zimablue on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @08:50AM (#17715435)
The lack of options/failure of the political system does not disprove the narrative that there were/are racial motives behind some of the systems we live with today.

"It can't be whites vs blacks, politicians that black people voted for did it too".

When you actually write out your argument it doesn't make any sense. What if they were given two options, both of whom would have continued racist policies? There's also a phenomenon whereby politicians identified with a specific "outsider" group have a lot more pressure (and ability) to defy the interests or stereotypes of that group. H Clinton under a lot more pressure to be hawkish to defy weak women narrative. Obama under a lot more scrutiny about anything that could be seen as a handout to African Americans. Politicians from the left often ripping up regulations, because they sedate the left who would have prevented right candidates from doing it.

Basically, it's way more complicated and your argument doesn't hold water.

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by stukh on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @10:36AM (#17716297)
Nicely put. Your comment reminds me of Rubin and Summers ripping up Glass-Steagall at the end of the Clinton administration and the current uproar at attempts to get rid of some banking regulations.
Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by arethuza on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @07:34AM (#17714972)
How likely are those people to vote Republican though? If there is little change of that then introducing a harsh new law might win more votes than it would lose.
Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by StreamBright on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @07:51AM (#17715052)
I am not sure, I just wanted to point out that this white vs minorities narrative is stupid.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/05/trump-prison...

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by dnomad on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @08:42AM (#17715395)
How is it a "narrative"? The widespread and coordinated use of drug laws to persecute minorities is a matter of historical fact. Are you disputing the historical facts? Are you familiar with the rigorous academic research on this subject? You might want to start here [1]. Calling something a "narrative" doesn't actually change anything, let alone the facts.

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/680751.The_Marijuana_Con...

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by wang_li on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @02:43PM (#17718320)
You say "drug laws" but then link to stories about marijuana. If you want to discuss historical fact, you can't just focus on marijuana when the picture is much bigger. African-American leaders[1][2][3] quite often wanted tougher laws about drug use. Drug laws may have been influenced in part by racism, but that is assuredly not the whole story. Black people don't want their communities destroyed by drugs and crime any more than anyone else, and they want enforcement as much as anyone.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/1982/10/04/obituaries/rev-oberia-dem... [2] https://books.google.com/books?id=Pit7gWBM6M0C&pg=PA31&lpg=P... [3] "The Congressional Black Caucus secured a closed-door sit-down meeting with President Nixon in the Cabinet Room. During the session, the group demands more action to stop the flow of narcotics into urban neighborhoods."

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by jessaustin on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @02:01PM (#17717982)
You don't think Clinton was playing the same game as Nixon in '94? He already had one group of voters in the bag; he was reaching out to another group so he wouldn't get Dukakissed in '96. If he had known he'd be facing a lump like Dole, he might not have bothered...
Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by samstave on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @11:02AM (#17716510)
yeah, it is class not color.
Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by dismantlethesun on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @07:15AM (#17714871)
I have heard this and always wondered what exactly is keeping people from doing drugs with lessers sentencing?

For example, if crack-cocaine carries a high sentence, then why not drop the habit in exchange for powdered cocaine?

If the question is price, then this is really more of a system targeting the poor than one that is against any specific minority group.

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by mschuster91 on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @10:42AM (#17716349)
> If the question is price, then this is really more of a system targeting the poor than one that is against any specific minority group.

Well, if the majority of poor people are blacks (and Latinos), then it certainly is a racist policy to have vastly different sentencing for the drugs for poor and rich people.

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by moate on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @11:12AM (#17716575)
Crack is substantially cheaper to obtain than powdered cocaine. Crack is just powdered cocaine that's been cooked with other substances, essentially diluting it.

The question is purely price, and it's the system targeting drug users of certain class/ethnic groups more than others. If you look at drug law enforcement in the US, it's substantially more punitive towards poor/minority groups.

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by moate on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @01:05PM (#17717525)
1- Can't imagine ya'll refute what crack is/the pricing of it since those are just objective facts. So, for anyone who's salty that the system is rigged against poor people/minorities:

Citation A: https://www.vera.org/publications/for-the-record-public-heal...

Citation B: http://www.drugpolicy.org/issues/race-and-drug-war

Citation C: https://www.aclu.org/files/FilesPDFs/ACF4F34.pdf

Citation D: https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/06/28/the-war-on-...

I can do a the standard English alphabet, the Greek alphabet, simplified Chinese, Japanese kanji and any other alphabets you guys would like me to tack on with sources that state the same thing:

The War On Drugs is a War on Poor People and Minorities.

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by Hnrobert42 on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @07:41AM (#17714998)
They should just have lower bail amounts.
Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by notriddle on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @01:18PM (#17717613)
Then people with enough money will just pay the bail and run.
Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by briandear on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @10:15AM (#17716130)
> Flight risk is really not as high as the system is designed for.

Citation please?

Re:Bail has become a way to lock up the poor regardless of g... by mantas on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @07:11AM (#17714852)
Steeper fines for failure to appear is just pushing the goalpost.