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Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by staunch on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @09:36PM (#17712514)
> Show up with tanks, rig an election in favor of your candidate, and disenfranchise an entire segment of the population...

I protested the Iraq invasion in 2003 but this is a revisionist and historically inaccurate version of why it failed so spectacularly.

The U.S. didn't occupy a functional country and then destroy it. The outbreak of mass murder and tit-for-tat violence wasn't motivated by political grievances against U.S. policy. The U.S. removed a dictator that was keeping the lid on religious sectarian infighting. It erupted immediately into a civil war and that was further inflamed by third parties.

"The fall of Baghdad saw the outbreak of regional, sectarian violence throughout the country, as Iraqi tribes and cities began to fight each other over old grudges. The Iraqi cities of Al-Kut and Nasiriyah launched attacks on each other immediately following the fall of Baghdad to establish dominance in the new country, and the U.S.-led Coalition quickly found themselves embroiled in a potential civil war. U.S.-led Coalition forces ordered the cities to cease hostilities immediately, explaining that Baghdad would remain the capital of the new Iraqi government. Nasiriyah responded favorably and quickly backed down; however, Al-Kut placed snipers on the main roadways into town, with orders that invading forces were not to enter the city. After several minor skirmishes, the snipers were removed, but tensions and violence between regional, city, tribal, and familial groups continued."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq

Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by BurningFrog on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @12:18AM (#17713179)
> The U.S. didn't occupy a functional country and then destroy it.

But they did disband the Iraqi army and the whole Iraqi state!

>"The fall of Baghdad saw the outbreak of regional, sectarian violence throughout the country, as Iraqi tribes and cities began to fight each other over old grudges."

These are things the Iraqi Army and Police could have kept under control, had they existed. Instead, unemployed soldiers made up much of the sectarian fighting forces.

A country without a state devolving into anarchy shouldn't be that surprising. But to the US, it apparently was!

Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by mirimir on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @01:22AM (#17713385)
It wasn't surprising to the US. That was the whole point. To destroy the Iraqi oil industry.
Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by h4b4n3r0 on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @02:02AM (#17713534)
Why would the US, the country dependent on oil prices being low, would want to destroy the oil industry of a major producer?
Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by freeflight on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @03:37AM (#17713904)
Depends on who you ask. There is a somewhat popular conspiracy theory out there [0] that claims Saddam (just like Gaddafi) got "removed" for selling oil in Euros instead of Dollars [1], which would have hurt the petrodollar in the long term.

[0] https://www.quora.com/If-Saddam-Hussein-and-Gaddafi-were-ous...

[1] http://edition.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/meast/10/30/iraq.un.euro.r...

Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by mirimir on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @12:27PM (#17717234)
Yes, that and what I said in another subthread.

Also, Sadam had outlived his utility.

Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by cryptonector on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @02:09AM (#17713558)
First time I've ever heard this. I've heard lots of how the U.S. went in to steal Iraqi oil, but never about how the U.S. went in to destroy the Iraqi oil industry. Explain?
Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by mirimir on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @12:21PM (#17717186)
From what I've read, it was a deal with the Saudis. Iraq was reportedly planning, with Russian help, to modernize its oil industry. And to out-produce Saudi Arabia, and break OPEC. And to evade US sanctions by selling oil in other currencies.

There's also reporting about close ties between the Bush and Saudi families. Same private schools. Kids vacationed together.

Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by ionised on Thursday August 09, 2018 @10:32AM (#17724503)
They were also planning to stop using the $ in favour of the Euro to price their oil. US business interests did not like that one bit.
Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by joe_the_user on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @10:03PM (#17712645)
The U.S. didn't occupy a functional country and then destroy it. The outbreak of mass murder and tit-for-tat violence wasn't motivated by political grievances against U.S. policy. The U.S. removed a dictator that was keeping the lid on religious sectarian infighting.

The US got a lot of good will right after the invasion. It destroyed that by disbanding the Iraqi army, by failing achieve basic safety for the country and by managing the country in an incompetent fashion.

Moreover, the country was in horrific shape due to ten years of draconian sanctions. They were theoretically against Saddam but the average Iraqi suffered horribly - the looting of priceless Iraqi artifacts by destitute mob was an expression of what US sanctions had reduced the country to (along with Saddam himself, of course).

Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by acct1771 on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @01:39AM (#17713450)
Revisionist if you don't have a clue what Special Forces/CIA et al do....
Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by mirimir on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @01:21AM (#17713379)
A dictator that the US had supported, initially because he killed lots of communists, and then fought a proxy war against Iran.
Re:What can defend against off-the-shelf drone weapons? by freeflight on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @03:41AM (#17713919)
It's quite similar to what happened in Syria. When the Syrian government was torturing "terrorist suspects", for the CIA nonetheless [0], it was also considered a US ally.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/19/syria-...