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Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by JoeAltmaier on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @11:47AM (#17663580)
This feeds into the 'if everybody can't succeed, then put up roadblocks to anybody succeeding'.

Sometimes charter schools are there to do exactly what's been described there: create at least one good school. Because the public system is largely underfunded/broken. To defy this impulse because it isn't replicable, is to deny the part the govt plays in creating the broken public schools.

Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by dragonwriter on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:13PM (#17663860)
> Sometimes charter schools are there to do exactly what's been described there: create at least one good school.

Mostly, charter schools select for the best students by, even if no other filters apply, selecting the students whose parents are engaged enough to select a non-default school.

There are mounds of evidence that “good schools” in the US—whether traditional private, traditional public, public-subsidized private charter, or public charter—are a product of getting the right student population rather than substantive differences between schools.

> Because the public system is largely underfunded/broken.

That's really not the problem.

The problem is that American society is largely broken, and we expect the public schools to perform as if it weren't (or to magically make up for it.)

OTOH, the schools are an easy scapegoat and distraction, and because the problem isn't fundamentally there, there is no risk that changes there will ever relieve the outcome problems enough for it to stop being a useful distraction.

Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by toast0 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:30PM (#17664069)
> There are mounds of evidence that “good schools” in the US—whether traditional private, traditional public, public-subsidized private charter, or public charter—are a product of getting the right student population rather than substantive differences between schools.

I think a lot of this comes down to the metrics used for gauging good schools. Which are usually test scores, graduation rates, and discipline rates.

Assuming that the test scores measure something worthwile, test scores is always reported as a point in time measurement -- but really a progression would be more informative. What I really want to know is will my kid go up or down or stay the same in test scores if they attend school X, it's not super important what the average score is ; especially since the progression may vary significantly based on the input score.

Graduation rates could be low because of many factors outside of school, or could be high because the standards are low, and are often reported only at the high school level but kids who don't graduate high school were often not well prepared at other levels, etc.

Discipline rates can be meaningful, but if one school doesn't expel anybody because all the children are angels, and one school doesn't expel anybody because they haven't noticed the large numbers of murders during recess, the numbers look the same.

Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by a1369209993 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @01:05PM (#17664450)
> Discipline rates can be meaningful, but if one school doesn't expel anybody because all the children are angels, and one school doesn't expel anybody because they haven't noticed the large numbers of murders during recess, the numbers look the same.

I think any town not named Sunnydale would notice the dwindling class sizes in the latter case.

Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by dragonwriter on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @01:22PM (#17664627)
> I think any town not named Sunnydale would notice the dwindling class sizes in the latter case.

Sunnydale noticed it, too.

Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by a1369209993 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @02:26PM (#17665414)
Well, they noticed dwindling class sizes. If their discipline problems included murders during recess, that would likely be lost in the noise from vampires and other supernatural hazards.
Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by rland on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:05PM (#17663779)
On the other hand, it's clear that sucking good teachers, good students, and good parents from public schools into selective charters is a form of "brain drain" that negatively impacts the performance of students at public schools.
Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by mikepurvis on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:12PM (#17663850)
Ontario has this effect as well with the separate Catholic school board, which is a long-standing bit of political football. Publicly funded, but pays better and has no mandate as far as providing special education, remedial programs, etc. So yeah, no surprise that the Catholic schools perform better than the public ones, which leads to a narrative that they're "doing something right" and makes a discussion about merging the two systems that much harder to engage in.
Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by yardie on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:01PM (#17663732)
Public schools have been doing this for decades. Creating at least one good school for high intellect students. They are called magnet, governor's school, or experimental school. Where it is hoped the teaching methods tried there can be passed into the broader public school system.

Charter schools do not share that motivation. If they find a teaching method that works better their objective is not to share to but instead use it to capitalize and enrich themselves.

Finally, charter schools are publicly funded. If they are taking tax-payer money the results should absolutely be replicable.

Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by iteabagkevin2 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @11:55AM (#17663681)
The United States funds public education almost more than any other country in the world per student.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp

Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by thatfrenchguy on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:02PM (#17663741)
That’s not PPP though. Does not talk about inequality of funding either (which everyone knows is a horrifying issue in the US)
Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by lvh on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:18PM (#17663917)
Same source also has as-percentage of GDP figures, and while it does move the US more towards the middle, it doesn’t refute GPs point that the US spends a lot on schools. Perhaps it is distributed inefficiently or inequitably, but that wasn’t a point GP raised.
Re:How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind by patall on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @11:54AM (#17663668)
Is it? For me that sound more like 'if everybody can't succeed, then make sure you succeed at the cost of decreasing the level for everybody else'.

If I am taking the good teachers from the other schools, I am not fixing anything, I am just transferring social capital from someone else kids to mine.