News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Bullshit Web by goatlover on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @03:29PM (#17656275)
> NYT needs to know how long you spent, on which articles, etc. They need data to produce the product and you can only achieve that with javascript tracking pixels (Server logs aren't good enough).

This just seems like such an abuse of what the web was meant to be. I can imagine the horror people in the 90s would have experienced if they new what JS was going to be used for when perusing news sites.

Sometimes I wonder if it would have been better keeping the web as a document platform without any scripting, and creating a separate one for apps.

Anyway, an alternative model news sites could use is to let users choose which content they want to pay for. That's a way to track which content users prefer.

Re:The Bullshit Web by jstarfish on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @05:24PM (#17657310)
> I can imagine the horror people in the 90s would have experienced if they new what JS was going to be used for

We understood the horror no less than we do now. Javascript in the 90s gave us infinite pop-ups, pop-unders, evasive controls, drive-by downloads and otherwise hijacked your browser and/or computer. There's a reason Proxomitron and other content blockers hit the scene by the early 2000s-- the need to shut that shit off was clear.

Re:The Bullshit Web by mahranch on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @06:05PM (#17657678)
Yeah, people under 33 seem to have a romanticized view of the internet. They believed there was no ads and it was flush with the kinds of content we enjoy today. Nope. Content existed but it was scarce/thin. Many of the internet users just stayed on AOL/Prodigy/Compuserve and never left to explore the WWW side of things. Those service providers were essentially national level BBSs.

There was no youtube, wikipedia, itunes or reddit. No instagram, twitter or google earth. The internet was basically geocities where most webpages were fan pages or pages/forums about niche interests.

I think people want to believe that because they believe that if ads were to disappear off the internet tomorrow, nothing would change. They don't realize that ads subsidize the content they consume, whether it's a youtube video they're watching or a reddit thread, ads are paying for that content. Nothing is free.

Re:The Bullshit Web by goatlover on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @06:30PM (#17657862)
The web was intended to be a free exchange of knowledge, not ad driven, regardless of how JS was abused in the late 90s, early 2000s. A scripting language was added to the web because of Netscape’s commercial interests in Creating an alternative to MS products.
Re:The Bullshit Web by mahranch on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @02:21AM (#17660138)
> The web was intended to be

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. You cannot say what the web was intended to be because you had no hand in inventing it. You do not know the mind of Tim Berners-Lee.

In fact, I argue the opposite - he had a vision of a global hyperlinked information system. While he wanted the protocol itself to be free (a move away from gopher), the information itself had no such protections. And that is precisely what we have today; it doesn't cost anything to use the WWW protocol. His vision has been fulfilled.

Now, the information (the content) itself is another matter. IP laws exist for a reason, people want to be paid for the content they create. They have ownership of that content. Whether it's the latest episode of game of thrones, a video game IP, or a book I wrote, the law protects my intellectual property. If I want to charge for access to that content, I'm more than within my legal right. Whether it's accessed over WWW, a cable box, or purchased from a book store, it makes no difference to my legal protections.

Re:The Bullshit Web by pwinnski on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:33PM (#17664099)
You write as if Tim Berners-Lee died in 1990.

I think it's quite possible to know what TBL thinks about privacy-invasive javascript, given that he's very much alive and writing about such things to this day.

https://webfoundation.org/2017/03/web-turns-28-letter/

Re:The Bullshit Web by SllX on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @11:18PM (#17659392)
> Sometimes I wonder if it would have been better keeping the web as a document platform without any scripting, and creating a separate one for apps.

The app platform would consume the document platform because it is easier to enforce DRM requirements in an app platform than in a document platform.

I'm just thankful that I can still Print to PDF nearly anything. I don't think it will last much longer though because "web" "designers" are driven to destroy anything and everything that was actually good about the web in their quest to monetize every pixel on my screen.