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Re:IP addresses and routing by fulafel on Thursday July 26, 2018 @05:59AM (#17616258)
What's your main issue with its usability? v6 deployment is going up and looks like it's on track to replace v4, so the DAB analogy sounds a little diminuitive.

I get v6 on my mobile and on my broadband, and in all respects it seems to work well for making the internet end-to-end addressable again. With the devices like RPis and VMs/containers, the simplicity is refreshing vs hacks involving port forwards or using a for-$$ service as a proxy.

Re:IP addresses and routing by magicalhippo on Thursday July 26, 2018 @06:46AM (#17616422)
Some pain points as a residential user:

- IPv6 ready hardware. I went through several routers (Asus and similar), and it wasn't until I ended up with pfSense that IPv6 actually worked for more than a couple of hours.

- IPv6 ready software. Some software just gets slower when it first tries IPv6, fails and falls back to IPv4 (especially noticeable browsing the web). Some software gets all confused about IPv6 being present and stops working.

- IPv6 requires DNS, even with static prefix (I have dynamic prefix). For servers, that means per-server dynamic DNS entry. Very few DynDNS providers supports dynamic AAAA records, at least when I checked last year. And getting DynDNS clients working on the servers was a nightmare.

For IPv4 I just need to keep one DNS entry up to date, with plenty of DynDNS options all around.

- Dynamic prefix requires firewall rules to be updated when prefix changes. I wasn't able to figure out how to configure this in pfSense, though I admit I had lost some motivation at this point.

As a residential user who still gets a proper IPv4 address from my ISP, IPv6 doesn't really bring that much to the table. I still have to fiddle with my router/firewall, and at this point IPv4 NAT is a lot simpler to configure (linking rules to NAT entires for example).

Re:IP addresses and routing by sedachv on Thursday July 26, 2018 @11:01PM (#17623142)
> I went through several routers (Asus and similar), and it wasn't until I ended up with pfSense that IPv6 actually worked for more than a couple of hours.

This is not an IPv6 issue. Most cheap routers are garbage and cannot even handle newer IPv4 RFCs correctly. The other fault could be at your ISP. I need to ask mine for both a prefix delegation assignment and a non-temporary address assignment.

> IPv6 requires DNS, even with static prefix

False. You can statically assign whatever /64 host number you want to any interface, as many as you want per interface (for example you can bind each service you run to its own IP, to frustrate port scanning). You can use static assignment at the same time as IPv6 autoconfig, the latter is built to avoid collisions. This is a huge improvement on IPv4.

> Very few DynDNS providers supports dynamic AAAA records

So ask them. Or run your own DNS server.

> Dynamic prefix requires firewall rules to be updated when prefix changes.

That is the DHCPv6 client's job. You should be able to provide a script that the DHCPv6 client runs on server reply messages.

I am an IPv6 n00b, literally set up IPv6 on my home connection seven days ago, and have not stopped being excited about it since. No more fiddling with port forwarding garbage or configuring DHCPv4 to hand out reserved addresses for known MACs. IPv6 is an amazing improvement to IPv4 in so many ways. Wish I had taken the time to learn about IPv6 and set it up sooner.

Re:IP addresses and routing by magicalhippo on Friday July 27, 2018 @06:37PM (#17630019)
> This is not an IPv6 issue.

It's not an IPv6 specification issue, correct. It is an IPv6 adoption issue. My ISP has provided IPv6 for 5 years, only last year did I get a router where it worked (apart from the other issues I've mentioned).

>> IPv6 requires DNS, even with static prefix

> False.

Of course it doesn't _technically_ require DNS, but in practice I'm not going to remember the 16 hex digits that is my prefix. And that's before SLAAC.

>> Dynamic prefix requires firewall rules to be updated when prefix changes.

> That is the DHCPv6 client's job. You should be able to provide a script that the DHCPv6 client runs on server reply messages.

Why should I have to provide a script? At most, I should be able to check a box on my router/firewall. Ideally I shouldn't have to mess with it at all.

Re:IP addresses and routing by magicalhippo on Thursday July 26, 2018 @07:07AM (#17616485)
I forgot to expand on the DAB analogy. My point was that they both tried to solve a problem nobody really had, and as such took over 20 years to really start to gain traction. By that time, the problem space had changed drastically.

For DAB, the rise of mobile data means far fewer listens to radio. Any audio quality increase turned out to be moot (they added more channels instead, besides streaming services has similar or better quality).

For IPv6, we now have a huge amount of actual clients (primarily mobile devices) with relatively few actual servers. In addition, security means companies use VPN or similar. This means the pool of devices who needs to be globally addressable is much smaller than it was. However the mobile devices can hop from network to network, and this isn't something IPv6 addresses any better than IPv4 (they'd still get a new address).

That's just my uninformed POV of course and I'm probably a bit harsh on IPv6 given all the frustrations I've had trying to get it working.

Re:IP addresses and routing by sedachv on Thursday July 26, 2018 @11:13PM (#17623185)
> However the mobile devices can hop from network to network, and this isn't something IPv6 addresses any better than IPv4 (they'd still get a new address).

IPv6 is designed to address this use case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_IPv6

Re:IP addresses and routing by fulafel on Friday July 27, 2018 @04:55AM (#17624535)
In all fairness, it doesn't look like MIP is getting widely deployed any time soon. There is a currently active IETF group working on improvements, who knows, maybe it will get traction at some point: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/dmm/about/
Re:IP addresses and routing by deaps on Thursday July 26, 2018 @10:39AM (#17617833)
Main issue is when you manage a TON of network devices.

What's easier - connecting to something your OOB management network (10.10.1.0/24) - the fw is 10.10.1.1, the switch is 10.10.1.11, the 5 servers are 10.10.1.21-26, etc etc...

That's a bit better than typing 2200:Hb43:4432:FE39:019H:F3Z6:3438:2101 etc...

I realize internal dns solves that, but that's a lot of extra dns records to maintain - which ALSO is an issue if your organization uses HSTS and preloads subdomains - you must have have a trusted certificate on each management interface, otherwise the browser simply won't let you manage those things over a GUI - or, of course, being your own CA and loading your intermediate and/or root into every deployed box on your network of every person that could potentially have to manage those devices over HTTPS.

That's literally my only issue with ipv6, in all honesty.

Re:IP addresses and routing by kiallmacinnes on Thursday July 26, 2018 @12:39PM (#17618777)
This pattern really only works at small scale. Add 5 more people, or 50 more servers - it'll fail.

Either because your new colleagues don't have the same memory as you, or because switch 10 and server 1 are now conflicting...

Re:IP addresses and routing by walrus01 on Thursday July 26, 2018 @12:09PM (#17618537)
You really should have internal DNS records for everything, and internal reverse DNS that matches your IP address management system. Can't afford not to, for internal management networks. Also allows you to use autodiscovery and monitoring tools that discover and name devices by their rDNS. Having monitoring systems with hundreds to thousands of devices and things with only IP addresses and no hostnames is a nightmare.
Re:IP addresses and routing by sedachv on Thursday July 26, 2018 @11:06PM (#17623163)
You can use static assignment for the /64 host portion. Having a large prefix to work with for the subnetting actually makes managing a large number of devices easier because you can group them into logical subnets, and in a way that future-proofs expansion. Coffeen covers this in IPv6 Address Planning. And on top of that you get way more efficient routing.
Re:IP addresses and routing by lgierth on Thursday July 26, 2018 @06:43AM (#17616407)
Actually the last RIPE meeting in May had a presentation that analyzed why IPv6 adoption seems to stall since ~beginning of 2018: https://ripe76.ripe.net/presentations/9-2018-05-17-ipv6-reas...

HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17060437

Re:IP addresses and routing by amaccuish on Thursday July 26, 2018 @05:01PM (#17621084)
The worst bit for me is server addressing. So my DNS server's have to be static, so I use ULA address for them, that's fine. But then everything else has a global address, and they change them frequently, so my DNS zone is filled with old invalid addresses, which then slows resolution, since clients are going through addresses to find the latest ones.