News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by bunderbunder on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @10:57AM (#17558989)
I'd say that, in this day and age, preventing vendors from using Android forks counts as a form of locking customers out of competing operating systems. Even more so now that Android forks represent the only serious alternative available to any phone manufacturer who isn't based in Cupertino.

Also, two wrongs don't make a right. Microsoft getting off way too easy does not mean that Google should get off easy, too.

Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by beerlord on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @12:04PM (#17559591)
Android already has a problem with fragmentation, which becomes a problem for customers when their phone becomes vulnerable due to a lack of security patches.

There are lots of cheap Chinese Android phones simply filled with malware from the factory.

If Google allowed phone makers to ship Android forks, this whole problem would become a lot worse. I think this Google policy is actually pro-consumer, and the EU is wrong on this point.

Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by bad_user on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @01:26PM (#17560298)
You’re talking of the eternal tension between security and freedom.

No, I don’t think that reducing choice and locking them in Google’s ecosystem is pro-consumer, even if done for the right reasons.

Let’s remember that Android was welcomed by many of us as a free (as in freedom) alternative to iOS.

If you want a locked-down, secure and polished OS, then Apple’s iOS is far better at this game. The only reason why Android is dominating the market right now is because it gave freedom to users and freedom to phone makers. And Google dialing that freedom down after becoming so popular is anti-competitive.

It’s essentially a bait and switch, which is why I believe Google deserves that fine.

Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by bighi on Thursday July 19, 2018 @09:07AM (#17565840)
> The only reason why Android is dominating the market right now is because it gave freedom to users and freedom to phone makers

I would say that the biggest reason it's dominating is because it's cheap. For most people I've talked to, they don't like Android, but prefer to pay 20% of the cost of an iPhone.

Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by kajecounterhack on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:03PM (#17560653)
> It’s essentially a bait and switch, which is why I believe Google deserves that fine.

Seems like you're projecting your own expectations onto what Google has really been selling all along. Google doesn't advertise Android as "free as in freedom." OEMs comply with their conditions. It's how it works.

Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by GeekyBear on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:42PM (#17560989)
>you're projecting your own expectations onto what Google has really been selling

Andy Rubin in 2010 speaking on how open Android is:

>the definition of open: "mkdir android ; cd android ; repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/platform/manifest.git ; repo sync ; make"

https://twitter.com/Arubin/status/27808662429

Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by kajecounterhack on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:09PM (#17561224)
Open doesn't mean the same thing as free.
Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by bad_user on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:12PM (#17560736)
No, that was Android’s marketing from day 1 and as far as OEMs go, Google’s conditions have evolved, along with what they are shoving down on their users’ throats.

And as far as “free as in freedom” goes, the US law agrees with me via “estoppel”.

Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by kajecounterhack on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @05:29PM (#17562230)
Open doesn't mean the same thing as free. Estoppel does not help that "free as in freedom" was never true.
Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by codedokode on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @12:46PM (#17559938)
Those Chinese phone manufacturers often use Google Services without a license. So what Google does doesn't change anything for them. Also, Google's agreements do not prevent vendors from installing malware as long it is not competing with Google apps.
Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by __m on Thursday July 19, 2018 @03:26AM (#17564455)
Which ones?
Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by lagadu on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @02:07PM (#17560696)
Are you actually arguing that giving less freedom to the consumer is for their own good? Am I just missing the sarcasm maybe?
Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by TeMPOraL on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @05:29PM (#17562228)
That's pretty much the entire argument behind security, in computers or otherwise. Security features reduce yout ability to do what you want on your device.

(And it's not just an abstract "what if I want to shoot my own foot off" issue. Consider e.g. sandboxing, which by its very nature kills interoperability. In a non-sandboxed environment, you can write code that forces two applications to interoperate, whether their authors like it or not. In a sandboxed environment, you're limited to what vendors allow you.)

Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by candiodari on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @04:35PM (#17561845)
Lots of Apple users feel like the app store gives them a pretty strong case this is mostly true.

I kind of agree with them, actually.

Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by g-b-r on Friday July 20, 2018 @10:59AM (#17575516)
For both Apple and Google's phones it wouldn't be hard to allow users to securely add keys of other stores or indivual software makers without requiring one to root his phone (aka destroy the security).

You'd just have to give several huge, clear warnings of what that means before allowing it.

And, by the way, security? Come on, if they really cared about the security/privacy of their users the permissions' systems would not be made of those huge blankets that are more like websites' cookie banners than real useable security controls.

Re:European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitr... by swebs on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @11:08AM (#17559099)
I meant locking out competing OSs is worse than bundling a browser with your OS. Both companies deserve the fine.