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Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by dalore on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @08:17AM (#17549126)
So if you don't want your neighbour flying his drone over your property can you shoot it with ultrasound? What would the legalities of that I wonder?
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by josefresco on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @08:27AM (#17549175)
over your property

How much airspace do you own over your own property?

Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by PeterisP on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @10:34AM (#17549972)
IIRC it's all the airspace until the 'general aviation' zone starts, where the owner still has some control but FAA or other local authority legally requires property owners to permit operation of planes and other properly licenced aircraft.

There's not much court precedent yet, and many places are passing specific laws to clarify this, but the general assumption should be that unless you're above 400-500 feet where national aviation regulations apply, you'd need a permission from the owner of the land.

Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by josefresco on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @10:47AM (#17550047)
Could I destroy an RC vehicle driven onto my land property? The laws should be the same for both, although I'm not banking on it.
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by PeterisP on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @11:03AM (#17559049)
The general principle seems to be that things owned by others remain so even if they are on your property, and intentionally damaging them is vandalism. E.g. if you notice someone's car parked on your land and smash its windows, that'd be a crime even if that car "has no right to be there" - you could require the car to leave in some legal manner, possibly have it towed or sue for damages caused by it being there; but breaking other people's stuff is one of the oldest things prohibited by law.
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by npongratz on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @08:19AM (#17557642)
Could you? Sure! Could you legally destroy it? As they say, "possession is nine-tenths of the law."
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by 0xcde4c3db on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @09:07AM (#17549420)
I read "over your property" as already implying that the airspace isn't your property.
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by josefresco on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @10:48AM (#17550051)
I honestly didn't/don't know. How far do you own down?
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by mijamo on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @12:35PM (#17550928)
Depend of the country, in France it's to the center of the earth, which means you receive some money when they build a metro under your house becaude they buy a right to use part of your property.
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by lainga on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @02:26PM (#17551879)
Iceland invaded by French Marines; geothermal energy in magma was "not theirs to take", says Macron"
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @01:57PM (#17551664)
In UK I'm pretty sure it's nothing, certainly you don't get anything (money/rights) if oil or coal is extracted from beneath your property ... but then people are allowed - with planning permission - to build down from established property. I expect the Crown owns it all.
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by mikeash on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @11:05AM (#17550160)
Destroying other people’s property is usually illegal. I don’t think it becomes allowed just because it’s somewhere you own.
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @02:16PM (#17551807)
Hmm,I wonder ...

In UK I gather you're allowed anti-climb paint - which damages clothes - to prevent unauthorised access (trespass, say); but you're not allowed glass or spikes which damage people too. People usually signpost use of deterrents, I'm not sure that's a requirement, probably just part of the deterrent.

So there's certainly precedent for damaging others property to hinder "trespass".

You're generally allowed ultra-sonic devices like cat scarers that deter people's pets from gaining access to your property, and whose effects impinge across property boundaries.

So I reckon as long as you signpost "ultra-sonic deterrent" then the onus is on those who're infringing your privacy and peaceful enjoyment of your property to avoid any potential damage by avoiding your property.

Aside: Not sure how far the law has come but there are guidelines from CAA saying not within 50m of another person, not within 150m of built-up areas (eg https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201415/ldselect/ldeu...).

Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by dalore on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @06:20AM (#17556936)
But the ultrasound isn't damaging it. It's just causing interference. That's like saying my radio is damaged when it gets interference from my mobile.

It's not actually damaged, it could be damaged from the fall but you didn't create gravity.

Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by tantalor on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @08:18AM (#17549139)
Same as shooting it with a gun, modulo local ordinance.
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by dalore on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @08:22AM (#17549161)
Is that really the same? Can you fire off a gun in your backyard at the sky? Isn't that illegal as the bullet comes back down to earth it can kill.

Meanwhile ultrasound is just lot's of sound waves and doesn't go far, and can't kill anything. I can fire ultrasound up into the air without a license or it being illegal.

Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by jtbayly on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @09:08AM (#17549430)
But doing it intentionally, whether as a triggered booby trap or an aimed shot, and taking down a drone would likely still be illegal if shooting a drone down with a gun is illegal.

I can’t remember for sure whether it is illegal to do so over your property, but I think it is.

Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @02:19PM (#17551835)
Are you allowed a high fence (assuming neighbours don't object)? What if it's virtually invisible, like nylon fishing line? What if the fence is incorporeal, like an ultrasound "barrier".
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by jtbayly on Wednesday July 18, 2018 @03:35PM (#17561437)
Fence height restrictions are quite common. Not sure about whether they are limited to "visible" fences. I doubt it.
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by walterbell on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @08:25AM (#17549167)
Use a defensive drone that fires vertically upward into the airspace over your property?
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by rbanffy on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @08:55AM (#17549335)
> can't kill anything

Unlike a large drone fully powered up hitting an unsuspecting person.

Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by pampa on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @05:41PM (#17553699)
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by StavrosK on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @09:16AM (#17549484)
Depends, not all drones use gyros.
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by falcolas on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @10:19AM (#17549892)
All drones do use gyros - they couldn't remain level without having rotational awareness. Accelerometers are the sensors which are optional.

The earliest drones used actual model helicopter gyros, the current generation have those sensors soldered onto the control boards.

Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by StavrosK on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @10:25AM (#17549923)
Not all drones remain level. Racing drones rely on operator input to remain level (it's called acro mode).
Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by falcolas on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @11:10AM (#17550200)
The PID cycle that controls the rotors, even on racing drones, relies on the gyros to provide the feedback potion of the PID loop. That feedback is "what is the current yaw, pitch, and roll of the drone".

Even in acro mode (which is more accurately defined as "the sticks determine the yaw, pitch and roll rotational velocities"), the gyros are used to measure the actual rate of rotation so it can be matched against the requested rotational velocity.

Positional stabilization, something you see more in the higher end drones, have an additional PID loop that takes input from the gyros, accelerometers and even GPS to determine the input to the underlying control PID loop.

Re:Ultrasound can cause anomalies in the Xiaomi MI5S Plus gy... by detaro on Tuesday July 17, 2018 @11:12AM (#17550212)
And (roughly) Acro mode needs a gyro to control that the rotation matches the user request, whereas self-leveling needs an accelerometer too to figure out where "down" is.