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Re:The OS Doesn’t Matter… by gaius on Sunday October 03, 2010 @05:00PM (#1753600)
I don't think you've experienced the level of integration Visual Studio brings to this. DTrace and Valgrind are great but they would need to be seamlessly integrated into Eclipse to be comparable.
Re:The OS Doesn’t Matter… by Groxx on Sunday October 03, 2010 @05:24PM (#1753655)
In-application integration is necessary? Higher integration just means that your debugging task is modal instead of allowing you to edit your comments while the debugger is running. It also means your application eats up more memory and takes longer to launch. It also means you can't substitute it as easily for something different.

I'll take my separation + hooks for launching any day over massive integration that means doing what you want is hard / impossible.

Re:The OS Doesn’t Matter… by kenjackson on Sunday October 03, 2010 @05:43PM (#1753697)
Actually you get both. I can edit comments while debugging and I can edit code that gets recompiled on the fly while debugging.
Re:The OS Doesn’t Matter… by Groxx on Sunday October 03, 2010 @05:58PM (#1753735)
Depends on the language / framework. ASP.NET 2.0 with VB, for instance, does not. Furthermore, modifying a WebService doesn't inform the web server that it's been updated, so it keeps serving up old versions of your code.

ie, even MS's own products don't play nicely with each other. But you're more stuck with them than you would be with something more atomic and disconnected.

Re:The OS Doesn’t Matter… by poet on Sunday October 03, 2010 @05:15PM (#1753638)
Uh, I have access to GDB, Valgrind, and DTrace through Emacs (either through GUD or a separate mode). The integration is seamless enough for me, and if it wasn't, I could spend an hour writing an Emacs Lisp extension to fix it. This is classic FUD.
Re:The OS Doesn’t Matter… by gaius on Sunday October 03, 2010 @05:23PM (#1753649)
I could spend an hour writing an Emacs Lisp extension to fix it

That's real nice for you, but what VS does is bring it out-of-the-box to everyone. Way to miss the point.

Re:The OS Doesn’t Matter… by poet on Sunday October 03, 2010 @05:28PM (#1753660)
As I noted in my previous post, it's pretty much out-of-the-box for Emacs as well. But even if it wasn't, who cares? You're going to spend the next decade at least using your development tools. The smart thing to do is to pick the highest quality tools and spend the time to learn them.

In no other creative or engineering profession is there this expectation that the most advanced tools are shrink wrapped together. Who gives a shit if you can buy paint together with your brushes? Just buy the best damn paint and brushes you can find, regardless of who sells them.

Re:The OS Doesn’t Matter… by gaius on Sunday October 03, 2010 @05:41PM (#1753687)
I'm not arguing with you about what is the "best" development toolchain. FWIW I'm an Emacs user myself.

But my point stands: if you do want the fully-integrated IDE experience, VS is state-of-the-art, there's nothing like it on any other platform. That is why I don't say "better" or "worse" I say "not comparable".

Re:The OS Doesn’t Matter… by gaius on Monday October 04, 2010 @04:17AM (#1755002)
Incidentally, you should check out a guy named Richard P Gabriel. His company made Energize, an Emacs-based IDE (in fact they were responsible for the Emacs/Xemacs schism). You may judge the interest in full IDEs in the Unix world from the fact that it no longer exists...
Re:The OS Doesn’t Matter… by motters on Sunday October 03, 2010 @06:54PM (#1753897)
You can seamlessly integrate Valgrind into Eclipse. I've been doing it for the last few years.
Re:The OS Doesn’t Matter… by borism on Sunday October 03, 2010 @05:16PM (#1753639)
DTrace has Instruments.app on Mac.

Valgrind has KDevelop on Linux.

Re:The OS Doesn’t Matter… by gaius on Sunday October 03, 2010 @05:42PM (#1753691)
Again, missing the point.